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webley mk6 date mark? or patent?


jimmy9fingers1
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Hi all,

I have recently acquired this webley vi, could anyone tell me whether or not this is a 1917 dated example or just patented in that time period, thanks

it does have a 17 on the top of the frame also,

Thanks, I believe the other marks are sold out of service marks

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The Webley MkVI entered service in 1915, I believe the frame date is a manufacturing date, not necessarily when it entered service, although I don't think that there would have been much of a delay between the two. Are there any other marks eg Naval (N), are the grips hard rubber or wooden??

khaki

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Hi, Jimmy. The important date is the one on the barrel strap to the left of the small broad arrow and inspector's stamp, '17', which shows that this pistol was actually put into service in 1917. The date below the Webley Patent mark merely shows the year of manufacture. It is not unusual to find Webleys made in 1918 with acceptance dates in the Twenties, so not used in GW . The point to point broad arrows by the patent mark show that your pistol was sold out of service, probably because it was purchased from the service by an officer during the War. Officers received a sum of money to buy their own revolvers but by late 1916 there were few available from commercial sources so it was agreed that they could purchase revolvers already in service from the unit Quarter Master. - SW

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Thanks Guys,

Sommewalker, I did wonder whether or not the frame date had the most importance (with regards to service in the Great War, I never thought about them being issued after the war, but I guess this revolver had a long service life and some of the later models would go into storage I guess if they were surplus after WW1. I have a friend who has the enfield produced mk vi, which was issued in 1923.

Khaki, I don't believe there are any other marks on it, i.e Naval or Unit marks or others, the serial numbers all mast up so I'm guessing this is all genuine for 1917, the grip is Bakelite or hard rubber in my rookie opinion.

Jimmy

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303 Man, that's interesting about the serial numbers, could you please tell me what source you acquired that info from,

ww2 webley serial numbers always baffle me (with there letter prefix),

not that I should mention that on here, but a good book on webley service pistols would be good. I'm guessing it's probably our old friend Skennerton

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A little bit different but I have a Mk1* (Naval marked) with the date on the left side above the trigger, 1914, To me it means that this revolver was upgraded in 1914 and reentered service on that date. It may have been taken out of stores for the upgrade or perhaps it was 'donated' by a retired officer. Like all collectors, I wish I knew more, it would be interesting to think that it may have served in the RND battalions.

khaki

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Jimmy. You want to get 'Webley Revolvers' by W.C. Dowell and updated by Bruce and Reinhart. Published by Verlag Stocker-Schmid AG Switzerland in 1988. This has the runs of serial numbers for each Mark. Not always much help in dating individual revolvers tho' as there was lots of over runs and reissues. My own Mark IV is an example. Production was supposed to have given way to the Mark V in 1913. It was originally made for the commercial market, but went into service in August 1914 and was serving with the 1st Battn Northumberland Fusiliers in 1917. I'll do a post on it sometime soon as it has a lot to tell the collector.- SW

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303 Man, that's interesting about the serial numbers, could you please tell me what source you acquired that info from,

ww2 webley serial numbers always baffle me (with there letter prefix),

not that I should mention that on here, but a good book on webley service pistols would be good. I'm guessing it's probably our old friend Skennerton

Re read my original post! the bit in brackets.

Lowest observed serial number for 1917 231978. Highest observed serial number for 1917 399242 (source The Webley Story by Gordon Bruce & Christian Reinhart)

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Hi All,

Khaki, Naval marked MK1 * sounds interesting, you have to be like Sherlock Holmes with some of the pieces one comes across, it's a shame they don't have accompanying paperwork.

And 303 Man (sorry I don't know how I missed the source), I must be getting slow in my old age. I will check out '(source The Webley Story by Gordon Bruce & Christian Reinhart)',

Sommewalker 'Webley Revolvers' by W.C. Dowell and updated by Bruce and Reinhart, looks a good un, I will look out for that.

Thanks again all

Jimmy

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Sommewalker, you IV sounds interesting, and always a bonus if you know a little of the pieces provenance, My friend has a MK6 that his Grandfather used in the Durham Light Infantry, it is not marked as such, he just knows as his Grandad brought it back with him at the end of the war, where it remained in a box under his bed until it was deactivated in recent years

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Hello

From this book, could you give the first ( 01 ?) and last number for 1915 ?

Mine is # 167230 dated 1915 and .15 on top left barrel.

Thanks

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Hi Khaki,

that's a fine looking mk1* you have there,

looks in good condition, plenty of Markings, interesting it's Naval Marked, the 4" revolvers look good

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I agree Jimmy,

Even though the MkVI is the iconic Webley for the GW, my preference is the shorter barrel and 'birdshead' grips of the earlier models, and (here we go) if I have to choose at the time between the two frame/barrel types I would opt for the MkV or predecessors.

khaki

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Hi, Florent. I'm presuming that you have a Mark VI, in which case the lowest observed serial number in 1915 was 153000, and the highest was 228393. The barrel strap date which shows when it was accepted into service is the '15 for 1915. - SW

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On the 19th September 1914 the Army ordered 20,000 of the then current Mark, the Mark V. These were delivered at 500 per week. Similar large orders for the Mark IV had been placed with Webley on the outbreak of the Boer War in 1899.and some 36,000 had been delivered and were in service. This one is mine. The only difference between the Mark IV and V was that the Mark V had the 'heavy' cylinder and a slightly modified frame to accept this. This cylinder has thicker walls in order to handle the more potent nitro-cellulose cartridges. Now mine was made at the end of Mark IV production, the serial number overlapping with Mark V production. It was made for commercial sale, having the 'P.Webley&Son, London & Birmingham' trademark on the barrel rib, and no government stamps.. It has however, the heavy cylinder, diameter 1.745in , and the barrel strap has an acceptance stamp '8/14 for August 1914. An iconic date. The frame has a South African Government mark, broad arrow in a 'U' just behind the hammer recess. Beneath this is '9' and '1.N.F./'17. I take this to be weapon No.9, 1st Battalion, Northumberland Fusiliers, 1917. It is not clear whether the South Africa mark was applied before or after the War. Most likely post-War. The heavy cylinder is numbered to the frame. The P'14 holster has shaped itself around the short barreled Webley, The P'14 belt is dated 1914 and is the extra- long version, but has been contemporaneously shortened to fit the less fuller figure! - SW

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From my Collection, here is a complete WW1 Officer's side-arm rig belonging to, and named to, 2nd Lieutenant Stannus Vernon Deacon Douglas-Jones of the Coldstream Guards, including his Webley Mk.VI Service Revolver, still live-firing and in it's original .455 calibre with factory fitted custom walnut grips, his Coldstream Guards 1854 Pattern Picquet Officer's Sword with an etched blade named to him, his maker marked and 1917 dated service revolver holster/case, his cartridge pouch, revolver lanyard and Sam Browne belt.

LF

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post-47661-0-58064900-1450277185_thumb.jWell, I guess while we are at it, I'll recall that not all revolvers in British service were Webleys! Here is my S & W Hand Ejector Mk II 0.455 in. Still in really nice condition with it's colour case hardened hammer and trigger retaining its original finish. It is complete with the manufacturer's certificate which used to cost 100 USD from the S & W archives, I don't know whether you can still get them. It shows the delivery date to the Remington Arms - UMC Co. N.Y. who acted as agents for the British Army, May 18th 1916. The unit price was $14.50 of which Remington got 5% plus 1/-. The contract was terminated in 1917 due to the needs of the U.S. Army. Alas now a de-act but nicely done.. -- SW

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By way of comparison, here from my Collection are examples of 3 different .455 Service Revolvers used by the British during WW1, all 3 are still in live-firing excellent condition and all 3 retain their original .455 calibre, with all 3 carrying a full set of British WD issue markings, from the top :-

Webley Mk.VI .455 calibre Service Revolver with a 6 inch barrel and with factory fitted custom walnut grips.

American made Colt ' New Service ' .455 calibre Service Revolver with a 5.5 inch barrel, issued in 1916, and part of a 60,000 revolver contract Colt had with the WD.

American made Smith & Wesson ' Mark II Hand Ejector ' .455 calibre Service Revolver with a 6.5 inch barrel issued on December 9, 1915 and part of a 69,755 revolver contract Smith & Wesson had with the WD.

LF

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Again from my Collection, is another Webley .455 Service Revolver seen during WW1, the high-end Officer's private purchase Webley ' W.G. Army ' model.

This superb revolver made to the highest Webley manufacturing standards, featured a deep high grade bluing with silvered muzzle, silvered trigger, hammer and cylinder cam, along with custom checkered walnut grips.

The Webley archives show that this particular Webley W.G. Army Model .455 calibre revolver, which again is still in live-firing excellent original condition, was retailed via White's Royal Artillery Agency in Woolwich on 27th September, 1909.

The complete rig.

LF


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