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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

New Deactivation of weapons regulations


flers1916

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Hi TT,

I was speaking to people in the trade at Birmingham, and it does seem that the proof houses in the UK will be requiring mags welded in from April. But how do they treat K98's, P14's etc with an internal mag? I forgot to ask what happens to all their existing stock that's already been to the proof house. I think the bottom line is that it's a total mess and nobody really knows the future here in the UK yet.

Under EU law I thought that an article that was previously legal could not be confiscated - i.e. the legal to own but not to sell fudge, or compensation.

Maybe many of the people buying these expensive deacts are taking the view that they need to get them while they can!

Surely they eventually will be sane enough not to actually create a whole new group of potential gun criminals!!!!

What a mess though. I'm not ready to take up Bridge or Bowls yet.

Cheers,

Tony

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Hi TT,

I was speaking to people in the trade at Birmingham, and it does seem that the proof houses in the UK will be requiring mags welded in from April. But how do they treat K98's, P14's etc with an internal mag? I forgot to ask what happens to all their existing stock that's already been to the proof house. I think the bottom line is that it's a total mess and nobody really knows the future here in the UK yet.

Under EU law I thought that an article that was previously legal could not be confiscated - i.e. the legal to own but not to sell fudge, or compensation.

Maybe many of the people buying these expensive deacts are taking the view that they need to get them while they can!

Surely they eventually will be sane enough not to actually create a whole new group of potential gun criminals!!!!

What a mess though. I'm not ready to take up Bridge or Bowls yet.

Cheers,

Tony

1. I don't mean to be rude, but "people in the trade" are not reliable forecasters of what will come to pass.

2. There was a grandfather clause when the 1992 deact specs were introduced. That is the precedent which should be followed, though it cannot be guaranteed.

3. Hopefully we will not be satraps to what the "Europeans" call "law" for much longer, though we have a new generation of judges in this country which has forgotten what liberty means.

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As far as I know mags will be spot welded post April. If no mag then port pinned to prevent one being inserted. Re integrated mags such as P14 again they will remain unaffected. Old spec must be bought up to new standards when sold traded or swapped. To exchange in old spec will be illegal.

Re compensation ???????

TT

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Oh re dealers existing stock they will have to resubmit for further work prior to sale. Costly for them. Will it mean an increase in price for a less desirable item? Will the customer pay?

TT

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Oh re dealers existing stock they will have to resubmit for further work prior to sale. Costly for them. Will it mean an increase in price for a less desirable item? Will the customer pay?

TT

I've got my eye on a couple that will be the subject of low offers come the end of March on the basis they'd rather be shot of them than re-work them.

BTW: thanks for your comments on the exhibition trench - appreciated.

Cheers,

GT.

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I remain amazed.

And if the separate EU Firearms directive is enacted / passed then they face seeing their new guns outlawed and required for destruction.

Or is it confidence no EU directive will be passed?

Or buy now and tell no one. If EU directive passed no one will know they have the gun. If so overnight they become a criminal.

TT

Am I alone in being amazed that no one in the media or authority - government, police etc. are actually advising us on this prize piece of EU legislation? When active handguns were effectively banned we at least had clear publicity giving warning when and how it was going to happen. I nearly bought a GW deac revolver yesterday but didn't because I am still not confident I know what the law will be. The dealer offering it was facing he estimated the best part of £40,000 in new deac fees for his current stock.

This clearly wrong - deac laws, especially for antique GW weapons - it seems to me- should be a UK matter. Yperman

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Police won't publicise as low on priority and possibly won't really be enforced to any great extent. As always there will be a phoney war period.

Re your comparison to handgun ban that was much much different.

I suspect at this stage as our current deac specs were sufficient the authorities will see the further tightening as merely icing on the cake. There will be no great risk posed by not being proactive. I would be surprised if the little guy sold / swapped older spec deac to a fellow enthusiast ever got prosecuted BUT for the RFD (Registered firearms dealers) a failure to comply would risk them losing their status and hence they will have to comply.

Re the EU directive it is still all up for debate and covers much more than de acs so no one knows what will happen yet hence no publicity.

Re the revolver, it will be best if you wanted it to buy now, rather than wait. There is nothing in the foreseeable that will see this banned / confiscated etc but post April any purchase from a dealer should see the weapon sold to new specs etc.

There is a ray of light for me. I always wanted some iconic WW2 weapons...MP 40, M1 Carbine etc but always resisted as I focus totally on 14-18. Now with new spec temptation removed!

Sadly my dream to own a MG 08 becomes more of a dream.

The big cloud for Great War collectors etc is the threat to automatic weapons even if deac being forbidden????? Wait.

Little more to say on the subject at the moment but follow MEP Vicky Ford who is heavily involved in this and also keep checking internet.

Hope this helps.

TT

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I still find it all rather baffling. I've been chatting to people again today, and with the differences between a SMLE (magazine) and a G98 (internal mag), a semi auto pistol with a magazine, a revolver that may need the extractor deacted, logically the only way to know what really complies with the new regs would be a new proof house cert. If the requirement is that any deact that does not comply with the new regs cannot be sold or gifted legally without new deactivation, but can be legally owned by the holder at April 2016, then that potentially creates tens of thousands of gun criminals should anyone be tempted to pass them on privately in the future.

One can only hope that some common sense and clarity ultimately prevails.

Cheers,

Tony

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Thanks TT - I will take another trip to that revolver dealer. Yperman

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Bren guns are going to be a rugger, if you weld the mag in, it won't fit in the W.D crate, if you weld the mag cover shut, it won't look like a Bren

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This is on the WorldWide Arms web site:

http://www.worldwidearms.com/new-important-deactivation-news/t10/

If semi-auto pistols need the slides 'captivating', and ditto revolver cylinders, then with the mag welding the majority of existing deacts will not comply with the new regs.

Cheers (or maybe not!),

Tony

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This is on the WorldWide Arms web site:

http://www.worldwidearms.com/new-important-deactivation-news/t10/

If semi-auto pistols need the slides 'captivating', and ditto revolver cylinders, then with the mag welding the majority of existing deacts will not comply with the new regs.

Cheers (or maybe not!),

Tony

Yes but if you own old spec you can keep in that format until the point of trade / sale / swap etc.

TT

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No mention on WWA site of mags being welded to rifles or housings being welded closed or inaccessible

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Mark, it's a done deal and happening.

TT

Bolts will still work but for SMLE welding!?

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Mark, it's the first of the 'Other Measures' on that link I'm afraid (mags being welded).

Cheers,

Tony

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Positives???

Now WW1 Luger £1000 plus.

After new spec it becomes a paperweight / display piece. Value? £250?

TT

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Hi TT,

I'm not sure that is a positive! With all the welding it will be pretty much ruined. The only positive will be if you can get one just prior to the start of the law at a knock down price (unless prices go the other way). Another positive though could be reduced values if going down the Section 7.1 route in the future.

Whereas it now seems pretty certain that these new specs will apply to anything deactivated after the April date, it does seem harsh that the dealers will have a potentially large stock of guns recently legally deactivated but now needing further deactivating and resubmitting to the proof house at their expense.

Cheers,

Tony

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I did put ????????

Holster fillers / display items but no good to those with a interest in guns and how they work etc.

TT

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Holster fillers / display items but no good to those with a interest in guns and how they work etc.

Not to mention wrecking the historical integrity of the artefact.

To extrapolate the kind of thinking to its extreme, you could imagine 1796 pattern cavalry swords (a weakness of mine) needing to be snapped at the point of sale or exchange to negate their potential as 'bladed articles'; irrespective of whether they'd been at Waterloo or not.

Cheers,

GT.

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Not to mention wrecking the historical integrity of the artefact.

To extrapolate the kind of thinking to its extreme, you could imagine 1796 pattern cavalry swords (a weakness of mine) needing to be snapped at the point of sale or exchange to negate their potential as 'bladed articles'; irrespective of whether they'd been at Waterloo or not.

Cheers,

GT.

Too true. Legislative madness.

TT

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It seems to me this is historical vandalism that wouldn't be tolerated on any other sort of historical artefact, the real sadness being that the changes can't improve the safety of an object already made safe. The real shame is that no distinction is being made between modern weapons and historical examples. I personally have no interest in modern weapons and would understand a tightening up of them, the originals are not rare or in short supply, and I can't help feeling a little uneasy seeing uzis et al for sale, but WW1 vintage weapons really should be in a different category. I see little difference between welding up a Lewis gun and walking into a museum with a lump hammer. I would be very sad if they banned them altogether, but I would understand the logic better than this shambles.

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Hi TT,

I'm not sure that is a positive! With all the welding it will be pretty much ruined. The only positive will be if you can get one just prior to the start of the law at a knock down price (unless prices go the other way). Another positive though could be reduced values if going down the Section 7.1 route in the future.

Tony

TT mentioned a Luger - 7(1) excludes 9mm Para.

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Not to mention wrecking the historical integrity of the artefact.

GT.

Winston Churchill's .32" / 7.65mm Webley was sold by Bonham's a few weeks ago. Their pre-sale advertising suggested deactivation if the buyer didn't have an exemption to S.5(1)(aba).

Horrible thing to say.

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Winston Churchill's .32" / 7.65mm Webley was sold by Bonham's a few weeks ago. Their pre-sale advertising suggested deactivation if the buyer didn't have an exemption to S.5(1)(aba).

Horrible thing to say.

Not horrible - CRIMINAL!

Rod

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