healdav Posted 14 December , 2015 Share Posted 14 December , 2015 In other words you are describing what is effectively a diktat produced by the EU which is simply accepted by a lily liveried governments and - oh yes - gold plated by any government. Same old, same old, and effectively a diktat. It must be hell for those on the gravy train, of which I am sure you are not one of course. What you mean is that in answer to a demand (very, very little legislation is thought up by the Commission, contrary to what people think), and is then passed by politicians who asked for it, and it is then goldpated by the British government to show you how they have to bow down to the Commission. To that extent it is a diktat - by the British government. I only wish the gravy train existed. It is now almost impossible for the EU institutions to recruit staff as the pay is so bad. This is due to politicians in many states who want all the staff to be 'temporaries' i.e. their friends and relations (have a look at just how a certain British Commissioner carried on about 12 years ago). They have this bizarre belief that the only 'democratic' way of running a civil service is for the civil servants to be subservient to their national government. Some actually believe that ia secretary would ring the appropriate minister, read out a letter and then ask for permission to type it (naturally, no minister has a clue of just how much happens in his ministry that he never hears about and wouldn't understand if he did). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripeyman Posted 29 December , 2015 Share Posted 29 December , 2015 As has been said on another Forum the advice and general feeling is that DO NOT REGISTER your de-ac. There are over 200K of these 'none fire arms' and it is impossible to police it. I am taking no notice. The proposed EU deactivation certificate will have the ring of stars upon it so it is/will be a EU matter. This just puts more votes into the LEAVE camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toby Brayley Posted 7 January , 2016 Share Posted 7 January , 2016 Here is the official EU proposal. It is a total and utter joke. http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-15-6110_en.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 7 January , 2016 Share Posted 7 January , 2016 Here is the official EU proposal. It is a total and utter joke. http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-15-6110_en.htm What you have linked is a press release giving a general overview not I believe the official proposal. There are more details and links on the bottom of this page but I believe this is the official proposal/regulation on deactivation: Commission Regulation on deactivation.pdf Source: Implementing Regulation (deactivation): http://ec.europa.eu/DocsRoom/documents/13965/attachments/3/translations/en/renditions/native Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toby Brayley Posted 7 January , 2016 Share Posted 7 January , 2016 Thank you! It does actually say Press release on the Email I received and in many more places! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 7 January , 2016 Share Posted 7 January , 2016 The deac regs above make sense. The problem is that the big EU draft proposed 18/11 - the press release is on top of the regs and would see automatic guns such as Lewis Guns, Sten's, Brens and Vickers etc even if deactivated illegal and subject to confiscation? The only hope is they are still proposals! TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
healdav Posted 7 January , 2016 Share Posted 7 January , 2016 What you have linked is a press release giving a general overview not I believe the official proposal. There are more details and links on the bottom of this page but I believe this is the official proposal/regulation on deactivation: Commission Regulation on deactivation.pdf Source: Implementing Regulation (deactivation): http://ec.europa.eu/DocsRoom/documents/13965/attachments/3/translations/en/renditions/native What you have is the text as accepted by the Commission. It now has to go through the European Parliament and an expert committee of some sort (membership varies according to the subject), and then on to the Council of Ministers. It may well have been changed considerably by then. If you have problems with the proposal, write to your MEP setting them out in detail. It is then up to him to raise them in Parliament. If other people agree with you then the proposal could well be changed. Of course, the Council of Ministers may not agree with you, but that's democracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 31 January , 2016 Share Posted 31 January , 2016 Well at Stoneleigh Militaria today the deacs were flying out. Sub machine guns and machine guns selling fast. Either Joe Public ignorant, buying to keep in the hope the regs don't get accepted / made law, or don't give a hoot! Some dealers optimistic others not so. Either way Joe Public shelling out cash that could be dead in the water by summer!? TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
healdav Posted 1 February , 2016 Share Posted 1 February , 2016 In other words you are describing what is effectively a diktat produced by the EU which is simply accepted by a lily liveried governments and - oh yes - gold plated by any government. Same old, same old, and effectively a diktat. It must be hell for those on the gravy train, of which I am sure you are not one of course. Believe it or not (and I know you won't) at least 90% of all EU legislation is asked for by someone, and not just dreamed up by someone in the Commission - the row about cucumbers was as a result of a directive asked for, and largely written by, the European Market Gardeners Association, for example. I have no idea who might have asked for this, probably a government which was perturbed by terrorist attacks, and didn't know the difference between a deactivated century old gun and a ballistic missile. I have thankfully retired and am not involved any more. Each government has a right to take the proposal away and discuss it with whoever they want (the UK is notorious for saying that it has been discussed and accepted by all interested parties when it hasn't even been revealed to anyone who knows the implications, i.e. the industry), and then eventually (after discussion by an industry group and the European Parliament) it is enacted into law, or at least a directive is passed by the Council of Ministers, and then has to be transposed (awful term, but that's the one used) into national legislation; and that is where Britain does the dirty by enacting something far more draconian, and usually to the idiot limit, and blames the EU for forcing them to accept it. Other countries just enact what the directive says and all is OK. Look at the actual directive before complaining about the Commission. Incidentally, for something technical like this, the original draft is often produced by the industry concerned, not by someone in the Commission. And just to make it clear. EU civil servants are probably the only civil servants in the world who pay 100% for their own pensions. At the momet they pay 18% of salary - and then the national governments dictate how much they can take in pension. What happened was that in 1951 when the Coal and Steel community started, the proto commission took on young people for the most part. For many years no one retired, and so the money bing paid in by those working simply piled up. The governments, although required by treaty to pay into the pension fund (actually it isn't a fund, just a budget line), just ignored it and paid nothing (the requirement fr them to ay was repeated in every treaty). Then, come the 1970s people started retiring in big numbers and by the 1980s the 'fund' was in deficit. It was pointed out that between them the member states owed some 15 billion euros. There was shock, horror among the governments and within a day or two the heads of governments had agreed a document which they all signed which said that never, ever under any conditions, would any government ever pay anything into the pension fund. We civil servants were left holding the baby. Hence, 18% of our salary goes into pensions. To make it worse, over the years up to 2000 a lot of the pension money had been lent out to coal and steel workers to improve their housing. At 1% interest. Remember when mortgage rates were at 15%? They still paid 1%. How much money was lost through this cretinous generosity by the governments with other people's money never will be known. It wasn't surprising that there was a deficit (or rather was going to be a deficit). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peregrinvs Posted 1 February , 2016 Share Posted 1 February , 2016 Well at Stoneleigh Militaria today the deacs were flying out. Sub machine guns and machine guns selling fast. Either Joe Public ignorant, buying to keep in the hope the regs don't get accepted / made law, or don't give a hoot! Some dealers optimistic others not so. Either way Joe Public shelling out cash that could be dead in the water by summer!? TT I was also there yesterday. My personal impression was that there were a lot of deacts for sale - possibly more than normal - but rather few buyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogilwy Posted 1 February , 2016 Share Posted 1 February , 2016 I still feel that the de-activation of any weapon is like castration. I hate to see it in any method or guise! Rod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie Posted 1 February , 2016 Share Posted 1 February , 2016 I still feel that the de-activation of any weapon is like castration. I hate to see it in any method or guise! Rod Maybe it is like castration. But in this case, castration ensures the survival of historical weapons rather than their demise. It is far better to own a deactivated Mg08 or similar, than not to be able to own one at all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yperman Posted 19 February , 2016 Share Posted 19 February , 2016 Help please I am confused! Do these proposals mean my existing collection of GW revolvers etc will have to be totally immobilised and re certified i.e, this law will be retrospective? Or does it only apply to deacs bought after the start date? Do we have to register our deacs and as responsible deac owners, get compensation? The EU proposal above seems to me at any rate capable of being read several ways. Could some kindly old sweat explain this to me in idiot language please? Y0perman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 19 February , 2016 Share Posted 19 February , 2016 As it stands my understanding is this. 1. You may have to register your guns. 2. You will only have to re work them to the new standard at point of sale / transfers. You cannot sell as they currently are. This means £100 approx work per gun and then a sale at way below what you think they are worth. Re point one I think that's still up for debate. Re point 2 already passed. You want to check the new regs re detachable mags. ?? TT Re compo, no none forthcoming TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark holden Posted 19 February , 2016 Share Posted 19 February , 2016 Rest assured the UK government will embrace this legislation with open arms. Knee and jerk sum up previous Governments intellectual investment in drafting UK firearms legislation. I pity the Police,having to track down tens of 1000s of currently unregistered but legally held deacs. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msdt Posted 20 February , 2016 Share Posted 20 February , 2016 Surely these are still proposals, and nothing decided yet? The date has already slipped some months, hopefully as sanity kicks in following protests from many quarters. Cheers, Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yperman Posted 20 February , 2016 Share Posted 20 February , 2016 Thank you Trench Trotter for your help - my blood pressure is almost back to normal! Mark I suspect the burden of registering - if it happens- will be placed on deac owners rather than the police . I can't see anything on displaying deacs - I am currently getting a display cabinet built - I can't see anything for deacs like the rules on active firearms not being stored in a place where they are visible? Anyone got a list of petition sites please? Thanks Yperman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 20 February , 2016 Share Posted 20 February , 2016 A piece of legislation re deacs slipped through in Jan. That is what I refer to. Re registration and potential confiscation of certain types, yes still a proposal. TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 20 February , 2016 Share Posted 20 February , 2016 Nothing re storage so cabinet still good to go? TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msdt Posted 20 February , 2016 Share Posted 20 February , 2016 Hi TT, Was the Jan legislation British law? What did it enact? Cheers, Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msdt Posted 20 February , 2016 Share Posted 20 February , 2016 Hi TT, See that you actually did specify above - do you have any links to the actual legislation? It would not be easily enforceable unless the police starting checking all Militaria shows and stopped bothering the terrorists. Cheers, Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 20 February , 2016 Share Posted 20 February , 2016 It comes into effect April. TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 20 February , 2016 Share Posted 20 February , 2016 https://ukshootingnews.wordpress.com/2016/01/02/new-eu-deactivation-spec-in-force-from-april/#comments Pistols have to be welded, magazines welded in and if no magazine present then the port blocked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
healdav Posted 20 February , 2016 Share Posted 20 February , 2016 Rest assured the UK government will embrace this legislation with open arms. Knee and jerk sum up previous Governments intellectual investment in drafting UK firearms legislation. I pity the Police,having to track down tens of 1000s of currently unregistered but legally held deacs. Mark If Britain lives up to its usual shennanigans regarding EU legislation they will demand all sorts of thing which are virtually impossible, and at the outermost limits of the EU directive, and then claim it was all 'forced' on them by Brussels. Everyone else will take a reasonable view and be accused by Britain of getting away with it or ignoring the law. At least, this has happened on many, many previous occasions so I don't see why it shouldn't happen this time. The British governments successivly and the Civil Service have a name for it - goldplating, i.e. reductio ad absurdum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 27 February , 2016 Share Posted 27 February , 2016 I remain amazed. A deac site on Internet in past 24 hours sold MP 40, MG 34 and Sten. Cheapest £750, then upto £2000. Is it people buying before new regs come into effect April when magazines have to be welded in so as to be fixed (even SMLE) amongst other changes Is it ignorance / indifference? And if the separate EU Firearms directive is enacted / passed then they face seeing their new guns outlawed and required for destruction. Or is it confidence no EU directive will be passed? Or buy now and tell no one. If EU directive passed no one will know they have the gun. If so overnight they become a criminal. TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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