12th Battalion Kings Royal Rifle Corps - 31 captured north of Ypres 1

[MBrockway]

Peter,

You may find it interesting to check the following for service records ...

BOWERS, Rfn Henry Edward James, R/5069, 12/KRRC

CORWELL, Rfn Harry, R/9023, 12/KRRC

EVANS, Rfn Robert, 7217, 12/KRRC

EVANS, Rfn Thomas, R/2166, 12/KRRC

KEOGH, Rfn William, R/6419, 12/KRRC

LIDSEY, Rfn Francis (Frank) Ernest, R/842, 12/KRRC

MORRIS, Rfn James, R/9174, 12/KRRC

PERRY, Rfn William, R/1927, 12/KRRC

SANDLAND, Rfn Alexander, R/556, 12/KRRC

SAUNDERS, Rfn Percy H, R/12154, 12/KRRC

SKIDMORE, Rfn Thomas Joseph, R/8985, 12/KRRC

SMITH, Rfn John W, R/14023, 12/KRRC

TELFORD, L/Cpl Arthur George, 7544, 12/KRRC

VANLINT, Rfn William, R/12073, 12/KRRC

WATSON, L/Cpl James, R/13702, 12/KRRC

WEBB, Rfn James Alfred, A/2301, 12/KRRC

I have reason to believe some of these men may have been captured on 19 Feb 1916.

Post #17 first image shows several other 12/Kings Roial Riffles in addition to those previously listed, so no doubt the 30 or so taken prisoner will be on pages before and after the one posted might now answer the original post......

Is there any explanation for the "D" prefix? I can't imagine they were D Company....?

That is exactly how I built the above list of names that I have asked Peter to check for Service Records. I was still shy of 30 though.

Corwell and the two Evanses are on the page I posted above with Dedman on it.

Re the company - yes, all these captured men were in D Coy.

IIRC I think I said Dedman was in D Company higher up.

[MBrockway]

On the page with Hamelin at the top . The top of the column gives a,b and c abbreviations. I don't read German but looking at it could be Regiment Battalion and company/ Not sure if Company is spelt with a K in German though.

IIRC I think I already stated Dedman was in D Coy?

Peter,

I can add the following ...

Lance-Serjeant William George DEDMAN / DEADMAN, R/570, 'D' Coy, 12/KRRC

Yep - I did, 3 days back

[johnboy]

My reply was to post 21 where Kevin said that he could not imagine D being D company Maybe he missed your post of three days ago?

[pagius]

What name is he filed under? Not in http://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/File/Search/#/3/2/107/0/British%20and%20Commonwealth/Military/dedman

[MBrockway]

What name is he filed under? Not in http://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/File/Search/#/3/2/107/0/British%20and%20Commonwealth/Military/dedman

That's odd - I found him filed as 'DEDMAN, W.' and 'DEDMAN, William Georges'

DEDMAN, W.

"INT." signifies he was transferred to a neutral power for internment.

DEDMAN, William Georges

[

[MBrockway]

Incidentally, he arrived from Hamelin in The Netherlands for internment on 07 May 1918

British interned POWs Roll
[

[stiletto_33853]

Amazing what a bit of lateral thinking achieves when you know that English is not their mother tongue, still hey ho!!

[pagius]

Can you post a link to the primary list, please, such as this if you put Dedman in the search box....

http://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/File/Search/#/3/2/107/0/British%20and%20Commonwealth/Military/dedman

(but he's not in that list ).

It's driving me a bit crazy that you can find it so easily , Mark, and I can't !

I'm sure many people on GWF could learn from your search process.

Thanks again for all the info and links so far.

[MBrockway]

Dedman's updated POW history ...

19 Feb 1916 - captured at Trench F34, E of Boesinghe
15 Apr 1916 - listed at Giessen
25 Jun 1917 - listed at Meschede, formerly at Giessen

Unknown date Jun-Nov 1917 - transferred from Giessen to Soltau
05 Nov 1917 - listed at Hameln, formerly at Soltau

07 May 1918 - recorded by Red Cross as arriving in The Netherlands for internment from Hamelin POW camp

23 Jul 1918 - listed by German War Ministry as transferred from Hameln to Aachen (in Germany) for internment in The Netherlands, apparently on grounds of sickness

Peter: Can you add any further dates from his Ancestry service record?

[pagius]

Statement of Services is a bit faded for the POW years. I've just about got a full time-line together now which I'll sort out and post asap. There's a date 7-5-18 mentioned in the blow up of the faded part posted above but can't make out the words with it.

Edited 22 December , 2015 by pagius

[charlie2]

Not the worst "mis-file" I've come across, and it's the first time I've seen a PoW with a KCMG. Glad to see Mark has remembered where Aachen is.

[pagius]

So where has it been mis-filed under?

[MBrockway]

So where has it been mis-filed under?

I'm sure many people on GWF could learn from your search process.

As I said above, one needs to get inside the head of the original non-anglophone clerks who built the card index. The ICRC site has many idiosyncrasies caused by this and I think "people on GWF" will learn more about navigating it were they to encounter and conquer these themselves. To be honest, vagaries in indexing are not an uncommon hazard for the researcher even in digital sources. Learning how to work around them is an important rite of passage for the researcher.

The records are definitely there as evidenced above, and clearly Andy and Charlie have found them. They are filed as 'DEDMAN, W' and 'Dedman, William Georges' as above, but you won't reach them as long as you keep plugging away only using 'Dedman' as your search term.

Perhaps you need to cast your net more widely. What other search terms have you tried?

[MBrockway]

Glad to see Mark has remembered where Aachen is.

Original error even more embarrassing as not only have I actually been there, but also for a year of my degree I studied Browning whose 'How They Brought the Good News from Ghent to Aix' is very well known to me. A very bad recording of the poet reciting it is the only example of Browning's voice.

[charlie2]

Original error even more embarrassing as not only have I actually been there, but also for a year of my degree I studied Browning whose 'How They Brought the Good News from Ghent to Aix' is very well known to me. A very bad recording of the poet reciting it is the only example of Browning's voice.

Sorry Mark, I didn't intend to cause you further embarrassment by mentioning Aachen. I promise not to mention AACHEN again.

Charlie

[MBrockway]

I always preferred German to French at school and took German for A-Level, so like yourself it's Aachen for me too

Incidentally, as well as Aachen, I went through Aix-en-Provence on the same gap-year mega cycle tour

[MBrockway]

I always preferred German to French at school and took German for A-Level, so like yourself it's Aachen for me too

... though applying the same logic should have me using Hameln rather than Hamelin

(Ha! Just spotted a Browning connection there too!)

[pagius]

Peter,

You may find it interesting to check the following for service records ...

BOWERS, Rfn Henry Edward James, R/5069, 12/KRRC

CORWELL, Rfn Harry, R/9023, 12/KRRC

EVANS, Rfn Robert, 7217, 12/KRRC

EVANS, Rfn Thomas, R/2166, 12/KRRC

KEOGH, Rfn William, R/6419, 12/KRRC

LIDSEY, Rfn Francis (Frank) Ernest, R/842, 12/KRRC

MORRIS, Rfn James, R/9174, 12/KRRC

PERRY, Rfn William, R/1927, 12/KRRC

SANDLAND, Rfn Alexander, R/556, 12/KRRC

SAUNDERS, Rfn Percy H, R/12154, 12/KRRC

SKIDMORE, Rfn Thomas Joseph, R/8985, 12/KRRC

SMITH, Rfn John W, R/14023, 12/KRRC

TELFORD, L/Cpl Arthur George, 7544, 12/KRRC

VANLINT, Rfn William, R/12073, 12/KRRC

WATSON, L/Cpl James, R/13702, 12/KRRC

WEBB, Rfn James Alfred, A/2301, 12/KRRC

I have reason to believe some of these men may have been captured on 19 Feb 1916.

Confirmed so far... Keogh (ICRC PA7666) and Sandland (ICRC PA19340) were in D Coy and captured along with Dedman on 19/02/16.

[Guest]

 
Hello,

I have loved reading this thread, thank you so much for the research everyone ! My grandad , Thomas Evans KRRC R/2166 was one of the brave men captured and listed above . I have tried to include a photo of him but not sure if that will work ! After WW1 he was never the same again and the only memories passed down were of a quiet man who would sit on his rocking chair chuckling to just William books ! 
I was reminded of him last night when I went to see the film 2017 which is loosely based on the KRRC I believe ? Great film and as I watched them running along the trenches couldn’t help but think of what my brave grandad went through !

Thanks again

Tony Peace

 

[MBrockway]

Welcome to the Rifles family here on the Forum Tony.

 

A fine picture - thanks for posting.

 

Thomas was probably well known to my own grandfather, R/6479 L/Cpl John Brockway, 12/KRRC.

 

Mark