Guest turbo_NZ Posted 22 November , 2004 Share Posted 22 November , 2004 Greetings from NZ, I'm trying to find out some information on Kiwi Ace Keith Caldwell's Nieuport B1654 Specifically the colour of the cowling and wheels (if they were not silver). I believe he flew with 60 Squadron if that helps. Can anyone divulge any info for me? Cheers Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolphin Posted 22 November , 2004 Share Posted 22 November , 2004 G'day Chris You're right about [eventual] Major K L Caldwell serving as a Nieuport pilot in No 60 Sqn RFC; he was with the unit from December 1916 to 12 October 1917, and was credited with nine victories (8 from Nieuports and 1 from an SE 5a). I can't find a photograph or drawing of B1654 but, apart from [then] Capt W A Bishop's blue-nosed B1566, No 60's Nieuports appear to have been plain aluminium, like the one below - as illustrated by Bob Pearson. I hope this helps a little. Regards Gareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest turbo_NZ Posted 22 November , 2004 Share Posted 22 November , 2004 Hi Gareth, Thanks for the help. I have a friend who's building a 7/8s scale Nieuport 11 and is wanting to finish it in the same colours as Mr Caldwells. (I myself am about to start on a Nieu 12 replica) Cheers Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolphin Posted 22 November , 2004 Share Posted 22 November , 2004 Chris It was great to hear about your friend's Nieuport 11. I hope you'll post some photos when it's complete - or even during construction. Was Caldwell's machine an N.11? I would have thought it more likely to be an N.17. I admire your decision to build a Nieuport 12, and would really appreciate being kept informed of progress. Have you chosen a colour scheme? Regards Gareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest turbo_NZ Posted 23 November , 2004 Share Posted 23 November , 2004 Hi Gareth, Mr Caldwell’s Nieuport Scout was actually a 17 as you rightly state, but because we’re a patriotic bunch down here in NZ, Paul (the builder) has chosen to keep with that colour scheme and markings. I would have done an 11 as well but the 12 is so much more versatile being a 2-seater. No colour scheme settled yet as I am not certain that any ANZAC pilot ever flew them. PLEASE prove me wrong though Will definitely post pictures when I get a chance of what Paul has done so far. (Complete fuselage, and tail surfaces) Thanks again, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolphin Posted 23 November , 2004 Share Posted 23 November , 2004 Chris Keith Isaacs' Military Aircraft of Australia 1909-1918 says that Lt George Pollard Kay, from Melbourne, flew A156, a Nieuport 12 purchased in France, while with No 46 Sqn in early 1917. Unfortunately, I can't find a photograph or drawing of the machine. Regards Gareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest turbo_NZ Posted 23 November , 2004 Share Posted 23 November , 2004 Hi Gareth, I guess an Aussie pilot is nearly as good as a Kiwi pilot so I could go with that….. Seriously though, I'll do some research myself with that information. Thanks heaps, I'll let you know what I find. Cheers Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolphin Posted 23 November , 2004 Share Posted 23 November , 2004 I guess an Aussie pilot is nearly as good as a Kiwi pilot Chris 'Nearly'? Keep up that attitude and we won't invite you to be an Australian State again. The extract from Isaacs' book is below. One error is the spelling of his observer's name; he was Lt Walter Willox Steuart, ex 18th Highland Light Infantry, who died on 5 March 1917 of wounds received when in Nieuport 20 A385 the previous day. I hope this helps. Gareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest turbo_NZ Posted 23 November , 2004 Share Posted 23 November , 2004 That's a really great battle account, Gareth !! Seems like the lumbering old N 12 can hold it's own !! Thanks for that. Will help my research immensely. I wonder what the difference's are between the French & English Nieuports. Build quality or maintenance, perhaps? Cheers Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolphin Posted 23 November , 2004 Share Posted 23 November , 2004 Chris I think it would have to be the quality of manufacture, rather than maintenance, as both French-built and British-built machines should have been maintained in the same way when with RFC and RNAS operational units. You probably know (but it case you don't I'll mention it here) that the RNAS ordered 50 N.12s from William Beardmore & Co Ltd, to be numbered 9201-9250. 40 were transferred to the RFC, and re-numbered A3270-A3275, A3281-A3294 and A5183-A5202. Early aircraft in the batch seem to have been finished in clear doped linen, and the later ones in PC10. While in RNAS service, at least, some had the rudder stripes extended to the elevators. None of this helps you in your efforts to find out what A156 looked like, does it? My guess is that the machine would have been finished in aluminium dope, but I wouldn't bet folding money on it. There's a comment in J M Bruce's Nieuport Aircraft of World War I that: 'The RFC had a very poor opinion of the Nie. 12'. Judging from Lt Kay's comments, this may not have been universal, or perhaps it properly applies to the Beardmore-built machines. Regards Gareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest turbo_NZ Posted 23 November , 2004 Share Posted 23 November , 2004 Thanks Gareth. I believe the French had a lot of pride in their aircraft which may not have reflected through to the English as well. I think eventually I’ll finish it in the aluminium with red/white/blue roundels. Looks very smart and is accurate-ish. Beardmore actually did a mod to the 12 by installing a fin in front of the rudder for a little more directional stability as they (and the fighters) normally had the fully-floating rudder. This can be an option on the replica and does make sense. Cheers Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolphin Posted 23 November , 2004 Share Posted 23 November , 2004 I believe the French had a lot of pride in their aircraft which may not have reflected through to the English as well. Chris I know I'm being pedantic, but William Beardmore & Co Ltd was a Scottish firm, not English. Us Celts get a bit sensitive about these things. Regards Gareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest turbo_NZ Posted 23 November , 2004 Share Posted 23 November , 2004 oops, you're right, they were. 1000 apologies Us Kiwi's get a little lost with Northern Hemisphere stuff !! Cheers Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolphin Posted 23 November , 2004 Share Posted 23 November , 2004 Chris I'm not sure if the Scots will allow a Welsh-descent Australian to accept aplogies on their behalf, but I'll assume that I can. Thanks. The French aluminium finish and RFC roundels should look great on your N.12. Don't forget to keep us up to date with progress reports. Until then, the drawing below will have to suffice. Regards Gareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest turbo_NZ Posted 23 November , 2004 Share Posted 23 November , 2004 Thanks for the picture. I most definitely will. There is a growing interest in WW1 aircraft down here in NZ, esp Dr.1's with Mr Peter Jackson owning 5 replicas!! Cheers Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeW Posted 23 November , 2004 Share Posted 23 November , 2004 I think it would have to be the quality of manufacture, rather than maintenance, as both French-built and British-built machines should have been maintained in the same way when with RFC and RNAS operational units. In fact it was the Clerget engine that was being referred to here. The French built Clergets were more powerful, more reliable, and didn't drop off in power so rapidly as the British built engines. Any Flight Commander in the RNAS that knew what he was doing would "corner the market" in French built Cergets, to ensure that his pilots had the best engines. I can only presume that the RFC chaps were equally wise. The Clerget was subject to overheating and to get round the problem, the French installed a special piston ring called an "obturator" ring - I believe the British manufacturer, Gwynnes, did not fit this ring. The RNAS was so worried about the problem that WO Bentley was tasked with finding a solution - Bentley went for aluminium pistons and cylinders with shrunk in liners - again Gwynnes were not interested and hence the Bentley Rotary was put into production by the Admiralty. Regarding the Beardmore "Nieuport 12", the lower wings were longer by an extra rib bay on each side - why I don't know - perhaps someone misread the drawing! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest turbo_NZ Posted 23 November , 2004 Share Posted 23 November , 2004 Thanks Mike I got this information from :http://mars.ark.com/~mdf/Nieuport_id.html The main differences with the Beardmore Nieuport 12's are:- Early versions had no aileron washout, longer bottom wing, new skid and fixed fin, later also had enclosed engine cowling, broader U/C struts. There's the longer wing you were referring to. Cheers Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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