AliceF Posted 16 February , 2016 Author Share Posted 16 February , 2016 Gwyn, Thank you for sharing the content of some of your cards. I definitely understand buying/sending these cards after the war was over or to inform about burial places. I did not know that these cards already in war times were sent to communicate the great losses. Quite understandable actually, when I think about it. In a way I was wrongly assuming that soldiers did not want to worry their relatives, surely true, but that is only one side of it. Christine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliceF Posted 17 February , 2016 Author Share Posted 17 February , 2016 "The German war cemetery Cheppy (Meuse), 2 km east-northeast Varennes, is in contrast to many other collective cemeteries in France located extraordinarily beautiful, on a free height from which you have a wide view over the graceful mountains, valleys and forests of the Argonne. [...] The cemetery was originally created by German troops, so that the first dead were buried by the Germans. [...] When, after the war, the French authorities removed the vast majority of German cemeteries and burials were concentrated on large collective cemeteries, also Cheppy was determined to be one of these collective sites. We have compiled a list of place names, from which reburials have taken place to Cheppy. It shows the extent of this work, which has been lasting for years. At the same time it gives relatives the opportunity to track graves of those, who were originally buried in these places and which previously have sought the grave in vain. However, research with the help of the official reburial protocols will be needed here in any case; because - as it is known - graves from certain places were not always moved exclusively to one collective cemetery [!]. In addition to those German soldiers who were buried in the cemetery of Cheppy during war years, there are Germans reburied here from the [following] places: .During the reburials, those who remained unknown were laid to rest in two collective graves with 3788 deaths. 2290 German soldiers rest in individual graves. Since the concentration was carried out from a wider area, it is understandable that the dead belonged to different military units. As far as can be determined, mainly the following regiments were concerned: [...].”VDK, 1928, 3 The photo is from VDK 1926, 12. Christine Cheppy_place_list.docx Cheppy_regiments.docx Cheppy_German.docx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliceF Posted 17 February , 2016 Author Share Posted 17 February , 2016 Here the map and a corrected place list (correction of a couple of spelling mistakes...). Christine Cheppy_place_list_2.docx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliceF Posted 17 February , 2016 Author Share Posted 17 February , 2016 In 2008 the remains of 35 German soldiers were found on the height of Vauqois and reburied in the cemetery of Cheppy in 2009. Three of the soldiers could be identified. A photo of the graves of the reburied can be found here http://www.panoramio.com/photo/34003526#comment. A small box with belongings of one soldier, Heinrich Achterkamp, was handed over – as I understood it - not to relatives, but to a person of the town administration, from the town where the solider came from. Amongst the belongings were belt buckle, identification mark, pocket watch, rosary and a pipe made of porcelain.There is newspaper article in German about this which includes a photo of the small box with the belongings: http://www.dffv.de/Rueckschau/Cheppy2009/Zeitungsartikel%20Münstersche%20Zeitung.jpg Christine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Feledziak Posted 18 February , 2016 Share Posted 18 February , 2016 A journey to the Argonne (June 1926)-part 2 "All dugouts on the St. Hubert height, as well as in the Franzen-valley have collapsed. The trenches, at most knee-deep, are completely overgrown. Only a fully concreted trench was perfectly preserved. In the Franzen-valley two well-preserved wooden boards which were posted on an oak tree give evidence of the old Prussian order. On one stood "for cans", on the other "for waste". Hand grenades, mortar ammunition, old boots, etc. were lying around. Our guide showed us a small cemetery about 800-1000m southwest of the cemetery St. Hubert. In this cemetery remains had not been removed, because it was only discovered recently. The guide found it himself, when he was participating in a hunt of wild boar and passed on the information to the authorities. The dead, who still rest in this cemetery, will therefore soon be reburied in a collective cemetery. We found in the cemetery, which is well hidden in the thicket and would have been impossible to find without a guide, still standing crosses on the graves with amongst others following names: Musketier Borrowiak 5./30, died 30.11.14; Fritz Jäcker, seminarist, 1-year volunteer, 5./173 from Heinitz, born 4.3.94, died 26.1.1915 (a excellent preserved cast-iron cross); Musketier Fritz, 5./173, died 23.11.14; Kippmann 8./173, died 20.12.14. A wooden cross Weiströver, 5./130, died 22.1.15. Very well preserved cross Musketier Wilhelm Jakobasch, 5./173, died 3.1.15. Well preserved cross, Musketier Wenzel Tadyszack, Musketier Joh. Muth ,5./173, died 22.1.15, Musketier Paul ?, Gefr. Lün?, 5./173, died 12.2.15.“ VDK, 1926, 10 The following soldiers I found in the Verlustenliste Fritz Jäcker: http://des.genealogy.net/search/show/1459306 Wilhelm Jacobasch: http://des.genealogy.net/search/show/1458441 Wenzel Tadyszack: http://des.genealogy.net/search/show/1459311 Johann Muth: http://des.genealogy.net/search/show/1422061 Franz Fritz and Wilhelm Jacobasch are in the Volksbund database: they are buried in the cemetery in Berru in Block 5 grave 25 resp. grave 29. Berru is about 75km away from the Argonne, but comprises reburials from Argonne area. Photos from Berru (WW1 and today) can for example be found here: http://frontdechampagne.over-blog.com/2014/04/le-cimetiere-militaire-allemand-de-berru.html Christine I am very disappointed that Fritz Jäcker, seminarist, 1-year volunteer, 5./173 from Heinitz, born 4.3.94, died 26.1.1915 (a excellent preserved cast-iron cross) He does not appear on the VDK database. or at least I can't locate any record for him. It looks like he was lost along with his chums in their little cemetery after the war, and then found by the guide in 1926 only to be lost again, unless they never moved them. Perhaps a mystery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliceF Posted 18 February , 2016 Author Share Posted 18 February , 2016 Yes, it is difficult to know, what has happened and why Fritz Jäcker's name was lost. But I would assume that there were all exhumed and moved. It would be very interesting to have a look at the exhumation protocols, but I have no idea, in which achieve they could be and if these archives survived WW2. A little note on Heinrich Achterkamp reburied in Cheppy 2009:I just checked him, he is in the VDK database, but under the name Achternkamp: http://www.volksbund.de/index.php?id=1775&tx_igverlustsuche_pi2[gid]=e3f492eee2de83416c40107c3843a52d Christine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 20 February , 2016 Share Posted 20 February , 2016 Just to go back to the discussion of Thiaucourt for a minute, I was rooting through my files and thought that this image may be of interest... It's the 1870/71 Franco-German War cemetery as it was in circa 1900/1905.... take note of the grave in front of the tree. It's still there today (as is the 'slab' next to it and the 'tumulus' at the rear)! Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 20 February , 2016 Share Posted 20 February , 2016 ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 20 February , 2016 Share Posted 20 February , 2016 ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliceF Posted 20 February , 2016 Author Share Posted 20 February , 2016 Fantastic, Dave! Thank you for posting the postcard & photos! Christine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Feledziak Posted 21 February , 2016 Share Posted 21 February , 2016 Those photographs are excellent and that is sure to be the same tree. Just look how it has grown over the last century plus.I guess that The slab that Junger wrote about would be or had been in this little area. " there were also fighters from 1870. One of those old graves was marked by a mossy stone with the inscription: 'Distant to the eye, but to the heart forever nigh!' A large stone slab was etched with the lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelcave Posted 21 February , 2016 Share Posted 21 February , 2016 Really splendid work that you are all doing on this topic - it is very informative and throws so much light on the care of burials by the German army and the impact on their relatives. Now we need someone to do the same for the French - and after that the other combatant nations, altho' I do know a bit about what the Italians did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 21 February , 2016 Share Posted 21 February , 2016 I guess that The slab that Junger wrote about would be or had been in this little area. " there were also fighters from 1870. One of those old graves was marked by a mossy stone with the inscription: 'Distant to the eye, but to the heart forever nigh!' A large stone slab was etched with the lines. If you take a look at the pre-WW1 photo, there is a large stone slab next to the headstone that is still in situ. This slab (which is still there, albeit resting lower in the ground than it used to) is highly likely to be the marker referred to by Junger. It can just about be seen in the modern day shots too (nicely cleaned up and brightened!). Unfortunately, I don't know what is engraved on it so cannot say with 100% certainty!!!! The Thiaucourt cemetery of 1870 consisted of very few individual graves, the majority being located in 5 or 6 'Kameradengraben' with a central memorial (the 'tumulus' on the postcard) being the location of several individual and unit commemorations, so chances are high of this being the actual grave marker referred to. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 21 February , 2016 Share Posted 21 February , 2016 The area of the 1870 cemetery depicted on a Google Earth aerial.... Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 21 February , 2016 Share Posted 21 February , 2016 Another view of the 1870 cemetery (from the rear looking towards the gate (of the 'old' cemetery) with annotations... Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Feledziak Posted 21 February , 2016 Share Posted 21 February , 2016 I did notice the adjacent grave and I really hope it is the one. I am trying to convince my biker chums to have a ride around the area later this year. I want to do a tour of the battlefields and would certainly like to drop in and have a look. If it is the one - I would be interested to see how the proper translation would appear. Would it rhyme as the English phrase does ? This is how google translates the phrase 'Distant to the eye, but to the heart forever nigh!' Distant für das Auge , sondern dem Herz für immer nahe and Bing says Distant um das Auge, sondern um die Herzen für immer schier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 21 February , 2016 Share Posted 21 February , 2016 There's actually a similar line on the upright headstone.... One of the inscriptions on the side begins with the line 'Dem herz en ewig nah' (but then goes on to mention his wife, two young children and father)... Dave (PS... doesn't 'nah' /'nahe' actually mean 'near' or 'close' rather than 'nigh' in this case?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliceF Posted 21 February , 2016 Author Share Posted 21 February , 2016 »Dem Auge fern, dem Herzen ewig nah!« (https://archive.org/stream/instahlgewittern34099gut/pg34099.txt)?!? Christine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 21 February , 2016 Share Posted 21 February , 2016 Dem Auge fern, dem Herzen ewig nah! So the first line on the grave next to the slab headstone has one line from the exact phrase used in Juenger's book! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWK Posted 21 February , 2016 Share Posted 21 February , 2016 Distant to the eye, Close to the heart forever. is how I'd translate it. But anyway: is there any mention on this CD of the cemetery in Douvrin (where Fritz Limbach was initially buried) And failing that (which I sort of expect, as Douvrin was concentrated into Lens-Sallaumines in the mid twenties I believe) any mention of Lens-Sallaumines ? (That's Fritz's grave, bottom left) JW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliceF Posted 22 February , 2016 Author Share Posted 22 February , 2016 Hi, about Dovuvrin there were only 2 very short notes: „Douvrin (Pas de Calais)Der Kriegerfriedhof hat während der Kämpfe sehr unter der Beschießung gelitten; der größte Teil der Grabzeichen ist zerstört worden. Mit der Instandhaltung des Friedhofes sind Kriegsbeschädigte beauftragt.“VDK, 1922, 4 The cemetery has suffered very much under the shelling during the fighting; most of the grave marks have been destroyed. The maintenance of the cemetery is carried out by war invalids. „Douvrin (Pas de Calais) Alle deutschen Kriegsgräber sind nach einem anderen Friedhof verlegt worden.“VDK 1923,7 All German graves have been moved to another cemetery. I’ll check for Lens as well.Christine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliceF Posted 22 February , 2016 Author Share Posted 22 February , 2016 Hi, On Lens there is more than I will be able to cope with. I start off with a photo on how it looked like in 1921. This is before the grave from Fritz was moved here. The text to this picture will follow. I was a bit confused about Lens and Lens-Sallaumines, but I concluded that it is the same cemetery (correct?). Well, then there are two really long travel descriptions from 1926 and 1927. I will choose one and google-translate parts of it. But I can send you the whole Dejavu-files in the original, if you are interested. All together there are over 30 texts (all from these page long travel reports to a sentence on tree plantings). If you are interested in Reading it all - it is worth ordering the CD.. The Fritz Limbach thread was really breath-taking. Photo: VDK 1922, 6. Christine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWK Posted 22 February , 2016 Share Posted 22 February , 2016 Christine, thank you very much! If there's so much about that cemetery then it's better that I order the CD as well! That is seriously overgrown! Here are some pictures of what it looked during the war, and in 1919 "Lens had been completely razed to the ground. From the most beautiful building down to the most humble abode, everything was pulverised" http://lelensoisnormandtome3.unblog.fr/2012/06/11/le-cimetiere-militaire-allemand-de-lens-sallaumines/ If I understand correctly the cemetery was called "Lens", it was behind the (civil) cemetery at "Lens-Est" ("Lens East"), and now it's called "Lens-Sallaumines" after the neighbourhood it lies in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliceF Posted 22 February , 2016 Author Share Posted 22 February , 2016 ”Lens near Douai (Pas de Calais) The war cemetery is in a state of total desolation. The entrance consists on the left side out of a mountain of barbed wire, on the right side out of a pile of stones. A shed at the entrance on the left side serves as accommodation for a war-damaged guard. The cemetery has no enclosure, from the surrounding fields you can get to the cemetery without any hindrance. There is not a neat path or a neat grave. Stones shot into pieces, wooden crosses shot into pieces or rotten, and open tombs are mixed together in a wild mess. On a bad recognizable cross path there is a wooden Christ figure – shot down - on a pile of stones lying beside its shattered wooden cross. The cemetery has not been taken care of at all, which is shown by the complete overgrowth of the entire cemetery with meter high thistles and wormwood. Shell holes of different depth and other deepening give the whole cemetery ground an approximate image of sand dunes. The weathered and rotten wooden crosses offer only partly a poor indication [of the location of the tombs], which is also true for the shattered head stone inscriptions that lie in splinters at completely different places than the dead themselves. (From a report of a member.) See the picture on the title page. [Photo above].” VDK, 1922, 6 Definitely very shocking for the relatives. The whole town was devastated, so the cemeteries. Fortunately things got better in the following years. Christine Lens_1922_German.docx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWK Posted 22 February , 2016 Share Posted 22 February , 2016 Ay ay ay, the cemetery definitely was nót in a good state back in 1922! Now, almost 100 years later, it's evolved into a haven of tranquility in a busy world. A truly magical place. And the Bundeswehr chaps who help out with repair and maintenance work now and then (on a voluntary basis I believe) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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