Martin Feledziak Posted 13 January , 2016 Share Posted 13 January , 2016 I can imagine that families were truly overwhelmed when they arrived at the various cemeteries and were faced by a forest of Black Crosses. The below picture is from May 2015 at Servon Melzicourt. This is looking back to the entrance from about halfway. There are 10147 souls at rest here. Remember that the old crosses were replaced by metal ones which mark the graves of 4 soldiers. so the current picture only has a quarter of the original crosses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie2 Posted 13 January , 2016 Share Posted 13 January , 2016 A wonderful thread Christine. Are there any thoughts on the reasoning for having 4 names to a cross? Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roel22 Posted 13 January , 2016 Share Posted 13 January , 2016 Four names to a cross is probably due to a lack of available space. After the war local people often reclaimed the land were Germans were buried, so the bodies had to be concentrated on cemeteries like Servon Melzicourt. Roel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Feledziak Posted 13 January , 2016 Share Posted 13 January , 2016 This is the information sign for Consenvoye. ( I hope you can read it ) It looks like there were a number of changes to the appearance. and Consenvoye was certainly used as a concentration for surrounding German cemeteries strangely 6,000 being moved there during WW2, which appears a little odd. During one of the upgrades they replaced the individual crosses with group crosses then in the 1970's these were replaced by the current metal crosses. I imagine this was done to improve the look and to assist with maintenance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliceF Posted 13 January , 2016 Author Share Posted 13 January , 2016 Thanks for all your comments!I could imagine that four wooden crosses were replaced by one metal cross - to reduce the number of crosses. It gives also a different impression, if you compare for example with the picture of Maissemy. Christine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roel22 Posted 14 January , 2016 Share Posted 14 January , 2016 Four names to one cross doesn't necessarily mean there are four men buried beneath each cross. Like in Langemark (near Ypres) with up to 16 names on one gravestone. It means they are buried nearby the stone. Roel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted 14 January , 2016 Share Posted 14 January , 2016 (edited) In some cases reconstruction of the cemetery was also a matter of stabilisation. For example, in Trois-Épis, the cemetery is centred on a mound in mountain terrain and the graves had to be set in concrete when the cemetery was reconstructed in 1971. In the area of the Vosges and Alsace the old headstones have often also been restored. I don't know whether this is the case in the north west areas of the front (Picardy, Belgium). Some visitors would have had to undertake challenging journeys in terrain devastated by war to reach the graves of their family members. Some of those German cemeteries are still there to be found in the forests, though the bodies have been transferred to larger formal cemeteries. This one is Rabenbühl on the flanks of la Tête des Faux: (My photo, summer 2015) This is what a post-war visitor would have seen: (My card) This is a very interesting thread and I appreciate Christine's efforts in sharing her material. Gwyn Edited 18 October , 2016 by Dragon Forum software upgrade changed spacing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 14 January , 2016 Share Posted 14 January , 2016 ...... For example, in Trois-Épis, the cemetery is centred on a mound in mountain terrain and the graves had to be set in concrete when the cemetery was reconstructed in 1971. .... Reminds me of the cemetery in the then German village of " Drei Ähren"..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted 14 January , 2016 Share Posted 14 January , 2016 (edited) As I'm writing in English for readers of English, I'm using the village name which is given by the VDK in their English language list of cemeteries in Alsace. "Ammerschwihr (Trois-Épis)" For those who don't know what this is about, when the cemetery in the village of Trois-Épis (near Ammerschwihr in Alsace) was constructed for German casualties from 1914 and 1915, the village was then in Germany and called Drei Ähren. After the war, the cemetery is labelled in contemporary pictures as Cimetière miltaire Franco-Allemand des Trois-Épis. Now it contains 259 casualties from the Great War and some from the Second. Seeing as hardly any British visitors venture off the tourist routes to go to the German cemeteries which may be out of the way along rough roads or up mountainsides in obscure sites, and I have visited a great many, always sensitively, I would have hoped that my contributions would have been taken in the spirit in which they were written. Gwyn Edited 18 October , 2016 by Dragon Forum software upgrade changed spacing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 14 January , 2016 Share Posted 14 January , 2016 ...In the area of the Vosges and Alsace the old headstones have often also been restored. I don't know whether this is the case in the north west areas of the front (Picardy, Belgium).... In some places in the north it is the case too, Gwyn.... Below are some images of restored/preserved original headstones from St.Mihiel, Nantillois and Vladslo German cemeteries as an example.... (PS... yes, I've just noticed my erroneous addition to these images, but decided to keep it in anyway (similar town name, wrong area!)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 14 January , 2016 Share Posted 14 January , 2016 sometimes they can be found in less expected locations too... such as this example in Zonnebeke kasteel grounds... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted 14 January , 2016 Share Posted 14 January , 2016 (edited) Thanks, Dave. There are some lovely, dignified memorials to be found. I usually photograph them. Those are all from the cemetery I have referred to as Trois-Épis but I have dozens more. I just haven't uploaded them to my Zenfolio yet so haven't got direct links. Gwyn Edited 18 October , 2016 by Dragon Forum software upgrade changed spacing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roel22 Posted 14 January , 2016 Share Posted 14 January , 2016 Sanctuary Wood museum near Ypres had/has a few original German headstones lying around... Roel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliceF Posted 14 January , 2016 Author Share Posted 14 January , 2016 So many interesting examples and wonderful photos! I am impressed.I also could have never imagined that there are headstones in forests without graves.Christine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Feledziak Posted 14 January , 2016 Share Posted 14 January , 2016 Keep up the good work Christine. you have encouraged us all and we respond by posting our photographs of the German graves. I look forward to the prospect of additional accounts from your disc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 14 January , 2016 Share Posted 14 January , 2016 Christine.... just out of curiosity.... is there any mention of (or articles on) the VdK take-over of the care of the German graves in France from the Franco-German War of 1870-71? I have it in my head that this took place in 1961, so any mention would be from around this year I'd think. Thanks. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Feledziak Posted 15 January , 2016 Share Posted 15 January , 2016 There was an interesting passage in Ernst Junger's book Storm of steel. In 1917 his unit carried out a trench raid which resulted in a loss of some of his men. The patrol went out with 14 men and only 4 returned. Some were later buried at Thiacourt, He also gives mention to old graves from 1870. "The next day, Colonel von Oppen summoned the members of the patrol once more, and gave out Iron Crosses and two weeks' furlough apiece. In the afternoon, those of the fallen who were brought in were buried in the military cemetery at Thiaucourt. In among the fallen of this war, there were also fighters from 1870. One of those old graves was marked by a mossy stone with the inscription: 'Distant to the eye, but to the heart forever nigh!' A large stone slab was etched with the lines:" I have looked on Google Earth and there is a large cemetery, I wonder if the 'mossy stones' are still present. Thiaucourt.kmz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliceF Posted 15 January , 2016 Author Share Posted 15 January , 2016 Thanks, yes I will continue with new descriptions and travel reports from the disc and check things you mentioned. Well, after holidays it is working time again, which leaves unfortunately less time for exploring the disc.Christine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted 15 January , 2016 Share Posted 15 January , 2016 (edited) A short piece on the construction of Cimetière allemand de Mongoutte which is near Ste-Marie aux Mines in the Vosges. In French. "Durant les premiers mois du conflit, les soldats sont enterrés soit dans des tombes provisoires, près de l’endroit où ils sont tombés, soit dans des carrés militaires, spécialement aménagés au sein des cimetières communaux. A partir de 1916, les Allemands organisent un service des sépultures militaires, qui aménage des nécropoles de secteur dans les endroits les moins exposés du front. La plus grande d’entre elles est celle de Montgoutte." The huge 12m cross is still there and the grave markers are now metal crosses. I have photos but need to upload for direct links. Gwyn Edited 18 October , 2016 by Dragon Forum software upgrade changed spacing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 15 January , 2016 Share Posted 15 January , 2016 I have looked on Google Earth and there is a large cemetery, I wonder if the 'mossy stones' are still present. The German military cemetery of Thiaucourt-Regneville does still, indeed, incorporate the 1870 cemetery. (Interestingly, it also includes a number of original headstones from WW1 too (including some to the French)....and a WW2 mass-grave). Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted 15 January , 2016 Share Posted 15 January , 2016 (edited) On 14/01/2016 at 20:16, AliceF said: I also could have never imagined that there are headstones in forests without graves. This is Hexenweiher, one of the German cemeteries on la Tête des Faux, in the Vosges. My photos from 2009. Gwyn Edited 18 October , 2016 by Dragon Forum software upgrade changed spacing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted 15 January , 2016 Share Posted 15 January , 2016 (edited) Hexenweiher now - and then - (I believe the penultimate card shows the digging of this grave.) My cards, my photo. I have been more recently with a better camera but I haven't uploaded those images anywhere. Gwyn. Edited 18 October , 2016 by Dragon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roel22 Posted 16 January , 2016 Share Posted 16 January , 2016 An atmosphere hardly to be found anywhere else. This area is on my "to visit"-list. Roel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliceF Posted 16 January , 2016 Author Share Posted 16 January , 2016 Very special photos and cards, Gwyn. Today I pick up the question on Thiaucourt. Yes, the 1870/71 part is included in this cemetery. Could it be the upper left corner? "Thiaucourt (Meurthe et Moselle). This large military cemetery is situated on a hill east of the village of Thiaucourt. It is enclosed by a wall and consists of an old part, established by the German troops and a large, open extension created by the French. After the last reburials, which took place in October 1924, the entire cemetery contains now 9391 individual graves and an ossuary with 2495 unknown corpses. The extension is still bare, but well maintained. The crosses and inscriptions are, apart from the usual mutilation of names [names missing letters and are not readable], in order. The planned hedge is not planted yet, the concrete pillars for the enclosure are delivered. The old part shows a German churchyard with trees, shrubs and flowers which has been designed with reverent love. The graves are framed with stones and overgrown with ivy, periwinkle and rose bushes. The old grave stones are partially weathered; the inscriptions of the old wooden crosses which are covered with zinc strips have often faded. At the wall of the forecourt of this part of the cemetery there is a memorial with a bronze plaque. The plaque is flanked by two seated, slightly shell-damaged, cherubs and has the inscription: "To the honorable memory of the here resting brave warriors from the years 1870-71 and from the world war, Dedicated by the 8th [or 3rd?] Replacement Division, Guard-Replacement-Division, 10th Replacement Division. "In the middle of the courtyard there is a concrete pedestal with a mighty eagle made of sandstone whose beak is destroyed by a bullet." VDK 1926 (2) Pictures of Thiaucourt nowdays can be found here (but further down on the page): http://www.dengrootenoorlog.nl/NL/stmbeeld11.htm Have not found any photo of the memorial. Wonder if the concrete pedestal on one of the photos is the one mentioned here – but no eagle. More info in German also here (including photos) http://www.volksbund.de/kriegsgraeberstaetten.htmlbut you have to type in the name Thiaucourt in the white box left to “Suchen” (no possibility to post the link directly). Christine Thiaucourt_German.docx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliceF Posted 16 January , 2016 Author Share Posted 16 January , 2016 Could this be the eagle in the German cemetery of Thiaucourt (the American has one, too, which is confusing me a bit). http://jmpicquart.pagesperso-orange.fr/CimnecropD.htm ( in the middle of the page) Photos of the American cemetery and the extension of the German one (I think): http://www.memorialgenweb.org/memorial3/cpa/com.php?insee=54518&dpt=54&comm=Thiaucourt-Regni%E9ville Christine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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