Worlin,Worling,Wordling - R Innis F and MGC

[charlie962]

I have, in my old box of medals, a14/15 Star plus VM (but no BWM) to this man whose name seems to be constantly mis-spelt

MIC Worling, John James R Innis Fus, Pte, 13193 and MGC, Pte 18630

Entry 5/10/15 France K.i.a. 1.7.17

Card is annotated "correct initials John C.

2nd MIC Worling, John C R Innes Fus 13193, MGC 18630

Card is annotated "see Worling John J"

Medal Roll 1915 Star MGC 18630 Worling John James ex 9th R Innis Fus 13193 Pte kia 1.7.17

Medal Roll BWM/VM MGC Worling John Chas, 13193 R Innis Fus, 18630 MGC Pte kia 1.7.17

This Roll is annotated John James submitted on 14-15 Roll in error

CWG Worling JJ Pte 18630 d 1.7.17 MGC(infantry) 178th Coy

NoK Mrs E Worling, Drumeagle, Sion Mills, Co Tyrone.

Original Burial record said GJ Worlin

SDGW John James Wordling b Urney, Tyrone

Ireland Casualties John James Wordling etc as SDGW

Soldiers Effects John James Worling 178th Co MGC Pte 18630 War Gratuity £13-10-00

The record has the G of Worling crossed out.

So all these records seem to get confused but I presume that he is JOHN CHARLES WORLING (or WORLIN?) I always thought Soldiers Effects was accurate because it was a financial record. But it is the only one that suggests Worlin as the spelling.

I'd be grateful for any comments as to his correct name !

Plus any other info or research direction to which I could be pointed. Many thanks

(I will run Craig's calculator for the Gratuity)

EDIT 8/12/15 as will be seen from posts below, he is JOHN JAMES WORLIN !

[woollamc]

Here is a link to 1901 Census - it says "Worlin". It is also written as "Worlin" in 1911 Census. The link takes you to the National Archive of Ireland's transcription but there is a further link on the left hand side at the bottom of the page which will take you to a PDF of the original, hand-written census. That doesn't necessarily mean it's right, of course...

C

[ss002d6252]

So all these records seem to get confused but I presume that he is JOHN CHARLES WORLING (or WORLIN?) I always thought Soldiers Effects was accurate because it was a financial record. But it is the only one that suggests Worlin as the spelling.

The names on the Soldiers Effects are probably the only thing that can be regarded as 'dodgy' at times , as your case shows. You do sometimes see records that show corrections or alternative spellings to names.

Financially the army were generally excellent at getting the details right (or too tight not to).

He would have enlisted Aug 14 based on his gratuity.

Craig

[charlie962]

thanks for the link, C. I see it says John James not John Charles. Perhaps confusion elsewhere over Jas and Chas ? So perhaps he is John James Worlin ??

Craig, thanks for doing the calc. Perhaps Soldiers Effects were right on Worlin. They made enough payments, the mother, sisters etc

[charlie962]

I've looked at LLT for 9th Service Battalion R Innis Fus and it shows it was formed in Omagh Sept 1914 and went to France Oct 1915 with 36 Ulster Div. The dates match his enlistment calc by Craig and his MIC date first entered theatre. So it would be reasonable to think he would have been with them fom the start? LLT says it was formed from the Tyrone Volunteers. Might he have belonged to them?

At some point he leaves R Innis Fus and comes under MGC

178th Co MGC 'joined' the 46th Div on 28th March 1917. But I see there is an MGC website that explains that all MGC records were destroyed in a 'mysterious' fire in 1920 so I'm not sure I can go much further here apart from looking at the general 46th Div campaigns. LLT mentions the attack at Lievin (near Lens) 1.7.17, the date Worlin was killed. I know nothing of this battle. More learning.

[ss002d6252]

I've looked at LLT for 9th Service Battalion R Innis Fus and it shows it was formed in Omagh Sept 1914 and went to France Oct 1915 with 36 Ulster Div. The dates match his enlistment calc by Craig and his MIC date first entered theatre. So it would be reasonable to think he would have been with them fom the start? LLT says it was formed from the Tyrone Volunteers. Might he have belonged to them?

At some point he leaves R Innis Fus and comes under MGC

178th Co MGC 'joined' the 46th Div on 28th March 1917. But I see there is an MGC website that explains that all MGC records were destroyed in a 'mysterious' fire in 1920 so I'm not sure I can go much further here apart from looking at the general 46th Div campaigns. LLT mentions the attack at Lievin (near Lens) 1.7.17, the date Worlin was killed. I know nothing of this battle. More learning.

It's not impossible he served briefly with someone else after the outbreak of war but judging by the enlistment time I'd suspect not.

One way to narrow down is to look at similar numbered men to try and get a bracket on when the number was issued, the earlier it is the less likely he had wartime service with any other battalion.

Craig

[mysie]

HI there is a James Worling on the Roll of Honour for 9th Batt Royal Inns Fus. KIA 1/7/1916,NUMBER WAS 19979.

Mary

[woollamc]

There's a near contemporary account of the 46th (North Midland) Division's disastrous attack on the Cite du Moulin at Lens by Lieut. P.S.C. Campbell-Johnston, originally published in 1922 and reprinted in 2011. I haven't got a copy but see that Amazon has paperback copies on sale for £4.95 or direct from the publishers as a download for £2.95.

C

[mysie]

HI, J Worling is in the new book, War Dead of Sion Mills, so think that would be correct spelling of his name.They had an exibition in the Stables in July past, they had Photographs and medals of soldiers from Sion Mills might be a picture of j Worling among them.

Mary.

[charlie962]

Mary

Thanks.The James Worling 9th bn kia 1/7/16 isn't my man. James's Soldiers Effects shows him born Urney, Tyrone and married to Sarah. Presumed dead first day of Somme.1911 Census suggests born 1888. Coincidence that John James (b. c.1892) died exactly a year after James and both in same Battalion. The copy of "Irelands Memorial Records 14-18" shows them both, with my man incorrectly spelt as Wordling! Both are Sion Mills men. Do both appear in the Roll you refer to? (bearing in mind the spelling errors)

C

Thanks for the Campbell Johnston link.

[charlie962]

I note that there are a page or so of names on the 14/15 Star Roll for the MGC that originate from 9th Bn and all given MGC numbers in sequence. Would these men have been in machine gunners in the 9th and then compulsorily transferred across to MGC ?

Mary, thanks for pm

[ss002d6252]

I note that there are a page or so of names on the 14/15 Star Roll for the MGC that originate from 9th Bn and all given MGC numbers in sequence. Would these men have been in machine gunners in the 9th and then compulsorily transferred across to MGC ?

Mary, thanks for pm

More than likely - when the brigade machine companies were formed they were primarily staffed by the machine gunners that were in the brigades battalions.

Craig

[mysie]

The email address for the author of the new Sion Mills Memorial book is,pearlharron@yahoo.co.uk. sure she could help you out.My husband has a photograph of a J J Worling in a MGC uniform that was sent to him a few hours ago from Belfast.

Mary.

[charlie962]

craig

I used the word compulsorily. Would that be the case, even if it was 'Volunteers- you, you and you' ? I shall go through the above mentioned names on the 14/15 Roll to see if service records survive for any of them.

Mary

I saw the email address on the link you provided and was going to contact her. Very interesting.. The 1901 Census showed three of JJ's sisters were working as spinners or doffers at a spinning mill- presumably the mill that is now the museum. Any chance of letting us see a copy of the photo?

[ss002d6252]

craig

I used the word compulsorily. Would that be the case, even if it was 'Volunteers- you, you and you' ? I shall go through the above mentioned names on the 14/15 Roll to see if service records survive for any of them.

I very much doubt any option was given, I've not come across any evidence of it (the army usually didn't give an option).

You'll be lucky to find records unless the men were later moved out of the MGC (due to most of the MGC records being destroyed).

The service records will very rarely record if a man was part of a battalion machine gun section (sometimes you may be able to see a specialist MG course but it's rare). I looked at 150th Brigade and so far out of the men who were moved to the MGC I've found very few service records.

Craig

[charlie962]

Craig

I've searched for service records for most of them using FMP but, as you warned, none found !

I note that 9 out of 30 are marked on the roll as died or kia.

[ss002d6252]

Craig

I've searched for service records for most of them using FMP but, as you warned, none found !

I note that 9 out of 30 are marked on the roll as died or kia.

I often given up looking too hard for a record once I see mention of the MGC.

That being said, now I've got my head around the war gratuities I can usually start to piece together some sort of history for them.

Craig

[mysie]

Charlie email sent.

[charlie962]

Ah. an exception Robert Rea MGC 18263, R Innis Fus 11286. started 6th bn Aug 1914, posted 9th Bn Sep 1914, trfd MGC 109th Coy 24.1.16. Record found on Ancestry Pensions

Edit.. I suppose it is reasonable to assume that JJ Worlin would probably have transferred about this time, ie formation of MGC. But because he joined a new company,(unlike Rea) would that have been formed in France or back in UK?

[charlie962]

from Ancestry I get the War Diary of 178 Company MGC, part of 46 Div. Here is the extract for the day he died.

The other on CWG who died that day from 178 Co was 67675 Cpl Percy Lawrence (formerly 2584 DLI) whose service record survives on FMP and shows he joined 178 Co in England 28/12/16 then came to France with the company in March 1917.

[charlie962]

and again (thanks to Ancestry ) from the 9th Bn R Innis Fus of 24.1.16 :

All this doesn't prove his movements. For Pte Rea mentioned above it ties in to his service record. But for JJ Worlin I've yet to find a date involving trfs of 9th R Innis Fus to 178 Co MGC. It may have happened via 109 ?

[charlie962]

Just an update to thank Mysie and Pearl Harron (sion mills war dead) for their help;

I now have a newspaper photo of JJW in MGC uniform and some prewar information on him.

Well done to Pearl Harron for her book and exhibition.

Charlie

[mysie]

Glad to be of help,and good that you got some more information on him.

Mary

[Guest]

Hi I am  Mark Hanney from Johnstone, Renfrewshire Scotland. John James Worlin is my great Uncle. Both John James and my Grandfather Thomas Worlin shipped to France  with the 9th Innis (Tyrone’s) and both then joined the MGC I think on its formation.

His younger Brother Thomas my grandfather moved to Scotland in the 1920’s. My part of the family have always been known as Worlin and indeed the entire family signed the Ulster Covenant as Worlin. Although the confusion with Worling was known in the family and we’re not sure how it all came about. Funnily enough one of his other brothers was Charles Worlin.

I actually have in my possession a copy of the photo, in postcard form, of John James used in the War Dead Of Sion Mills book.

[charlie962]

Mark, Welcome to the Forum.

 

Although I started this thread I did not get a notification that someone had posted so just chance I saw your post ?

 

Very interesting to see your comments. Both John James and Thomas have the same entry date to F&F as you say. John James's MGC number, 18630, was issued probably January 1916. Thomas has an MGC number 159933 which was not issued until June 1918 as far as I can work out (with the help of an interesting table set up by Craig in a thread here)

 

The MGC numbering is never an easy thing to follow and I am no expert.Thomas may well have had an interim number that is not shown on the Roll ? Perhaps you have extra info ?

 

Charlie