newman Posted 21 November , 2004 Share Posted 21 November , 2004 Harry Newman was my uncle but I never new him. He was born in Campton, Bedfordshire in 1888 and is on Campton War Memorial. In the Bedfordshire Roll of Honour on-line, he is one of the few where no further information is available. No identifieable mention on cwgc site, do not know his number but may have been in the Bedfordshire Regiment but can find no record. Has anyone come across the name? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 21 November , 2004 Share Posted 21 November , 2004 I think your man is Pte Harry Newman, No 33062, 6th Bn. Leicesetershire regiment, He was formerly 6389 Bedfordshire Regt, Enlisted in Bedford while living West Leagrave in Beds. 2/10/17 KIA. NEWMAN, HARRY Initials: H Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Private Regiment: Leicestershire Regiment Unit Text: 6th Bn. Age: 32 Date of Death: 02/10/1917 Service No: 33062 Additional information: Son of Mrs. Rose Newman, of 6, Dunstable Rd., West Leagrave, Luton. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 50 to 51 Cemetery: TYNE COT MEMORIAL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeppoSapone Posted 21 November , 2004 Share Posted 21 November , 2004 Harry Newman was my uncle but I never new him. He was born in Campton, Bedfordshire in 1888 and is on Campton War Memorial. In the Bedfordshire Roll of Honour on-line, he is one of the few where no further information is available. No identifieable mention on cwgc site, do not know his number but may have been in the Bedfordshire Regiment but can find no record. Has anyone come across the name? If you do not know of it you may be interested in knowing that there is a "Newman Name Society" for family historians with Newman connections. Send a message if you want full details. My mothers maiden name was Newman, but I doubt that her Newman family is related to yours. They were from Kentish London, but originated in Suffolk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pete Wood Posted 21 November , 2004 Share Posted 21 November , 2004 You can download his MIC here http://www.documentsonline.nationalarchive...&resultcount=50 He is listed on Soldiers Died In The Great War as being 'killed in action.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newman Posted 21 November , 2004 Author Share Posted 21 November , 2004 Thanks for contributions so far but the Luton Harry Newman is a different person and the Newman Name Website only deals with the SW. More information about the Harry Newman who I seek: He was born in Shefford Beds, but his parents Alfred John Newman and Emily Jane (nee Devereux) moved to Campton Beds, shortly after this. They already had one daughter and went on to produce a further 11 siblings. Harry's birth was registered at Biggleswade registry office in 1888 and he is on the 1901 census as living in Campton, although through a mistake in transcription he is called Henry on the typed version but Harry on the original. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeppoSapone Posted 21 November , 2004 Share Posted 21 November , 2004 the Newman Name Website only deals with the SW. I think that the "Newman Name Society" is something other than the Newman Name Website that you mention. The "Newman Name Society" deals with Newman's all over the world. Mostly in Britain, but it is also those descended from Newman's who emigrated to the old Empire/ Commonwealth and to the USA. You have to pay an annual subscription, £6 iirc, and are sent a number of 'bulletins' each year, and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pete Wood Posted 21 November , 2004 Share Posted 21 November , 2004 Try this chap Name: NEWMAN Initials: H Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Rifleman Regiment: Rifle Brigade Unit Text: Depot Date of Death: 28/12/1918 Service No: 5718 Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: C. 85. Cemetery: NEATH (LLANTWIT) CEMETERY Medal card of Newman, 5718 Pte Harry Newman Rifle Brigade http://www.documentsonline.nationalarchive...1&resultcount=3 Nothing on this soldier in SDGW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedfordyeoman Posted 21 November , 2004 Share Posted 21 November , 2004 Taking CWGC as a point of reference: There are 7 men listed as H Newman and could have been born in 1888 in Campton (simply on the basis that the others have some disqualifying feature): Welsh Rgt 7033 d 23.12.14 b Brompton, West London* Sherwood Foresters 307054 d 28.5.17 b Loos, France ASC M2/194154 d 19.8.17 b Reninghelst, Belgium* RFA 25897 d 14.10.18 b Delhi, India Rifle Brigade 5718 d 28.12.18 b Neath, Wales* RFA 83110 d 1.10.17 South Lancs 32819 d 12.4.18 A swift check of the MICs for these chaps rule out the last 2 (Henry W and Henry respectively). Those starred are shown as Harry. The RFA chap 25897 is shown as H only. The Sherwood Forester I can't find under the number shown but there is a H Newman under number 5572 - the higher number could well be his new number as a territorial - and 307054 clearly served abroad. So we have 5 men left. As Racing T has access to the SDGW CD he might be kind enough to check the 4 other than the Rifle Brigade chap that he can't find and thereby narrow it down even further(although roll of honour usually carries out this task anyway before listing). Beyond that and I think you are looking for newspaper reports (Biggleswade Chronicle is best) for the period(s) in question. If you are not local to Bedfordshire for newspaper reports, I'll see what I can do for you. There is no H Newman listed in the 2 National Rolls covering Bedfordshire. However, there is an entry for Charles Newman of the 5th Beds (shown in the absent voters list* as living at Greenways, Campton). * (1) Also an entry for Fred Newman of Collingwood Battalion, RND , same address (2) No entry for Harry, which would suggest (but does not confirm in any way) that he died before 1918 (3) entries for 2 Devereux in Gravenhurst Road. My money's on the Sherwood Forester. Good luck ! David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newman Posted 21 November , 2004 Author Share Posted 21 November , 2004 Thanks bedfordyeoman You have managed to do a much better elimination job than me at cwgc site. Charles and Fred were brothers of his. Fred born in 1889 and Charles in 1892. I now live in Gloucestershire but was brought up in Shefford and I was very familiar with the Biggleswade Chronicle. Do they keep their own archives or are they at the records office? I would be grateful if Racing Teapots could check as suggested. Once again many thanks for your help so far. Regards Barry Dawson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will O'Brien Posted 21 November , 2004 Share Posted 21 November , 2004 Barry...............Are you absolutely sure his death would qualify him for war grave status & therefore on the CWGC database.......................Inclusion on a war memorial is no guarantee.............Perhaps getting a copy of his death certificate would be a good start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pete Wood Posted 21 November , 2004 Share Posted 21 November , 2004 7033 Harry born in Holmer, Herefordshire 307054 shows just the initial 'H' - enlisted in Chesterfield, Derbyshire (can't find his MIC) M2/194154 Harry born Langley Derbyshire, resident Iver Heath in Bucks 25897 NOT LISTED on SDGW (can't find him his MIC) 5718 NOT LISTED on SDGW (MIC says his name is Harry) 83110 Henry Walter, born St George S, London and enlisted Stratford in London 32819 Henry, resident in Colwyn Bay, Debigh and enlisted in Cardiff. Those listed in bold are still possible candidates and need eliminating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Light Posted 21 November , 2004 Share Posted 21 November , 2004 I know it's the end of a long day, and I've read this thread through several times, and am probably brain dead, but: has everybody eliminated: Private 7294 Harry Newman, 2nd Battalion Bedfordshire Regiment died 26/10/14. I know the place of birth is not accurate, but isn't he more likely than some of the others? Or am I off at a tangent? Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedfordyeoman Posted 22 November , 2004 Share Posted 22 November , 2004 SueL, No, can't be him if Harry is born in Campton. Great Staughton is about 20 miles away.Racing T's note appears to rule out all but the chaps from the RFA and Rifle Brigade, unless Harry had moved away for a time. Gt Staughton chap also appears in National Roll. Barry Biggleswade Chronicle is held on microfilm at Bedford library. I'll see if I can find anything but I am busy for the next week or so. A check in the GRO index may also prove dividends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedfordyeoman Posted 22 November , 2004 Share Posted 22 November , 2004 And..... 7294 would give an enlistment date of about 1900/01, so would have been 12/13 on enlistment !! David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newman Posted 22 November , 2004 Author Share Posted 22 November , 2004 Following the death certificate suggestion, I have search the 1837online index from Jan 1914 to Dec 1919 but there is no Harry Newman with an age which fits. There are some with the age given as zero - could this mean people of unknown age or is it babies who died very young? There are no registrations for his local registry office. Who would have registered and at which office? Would the regiment do it near their headquarters or did the government do it? Could it be that the death was registered much later to give time for him to turn up? I suppose that AWOL is a possibility. Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pete Wood Posted 22 November , 2004 Share Posted 22 November , 2004 Just a few pointers, here: I had assumed from your first post that you knew he was in the army (as you thought he was in the Bedfordshire regiment). Were you guessing? Because he might have been in the Navy, Merchant Navy, or just been a civilian passenger who died on a ship that was sunk by a German submarine. We've seen this before - and spent hours looking for a military death only to find he died, a civilian, on a passenger ship. What do you actually know about him, apart from his date and place of birth? Was he still living in Campton in 1914? Soldiers are often recorded on a memorial, where he had his roots (and not necessarily where he was living). Remember, to get his name on the memorial would have (probably) required his parents to say that he was deceased. The CWGC only records deaths that were recognised as war casualties. Harry's local parish may have been more lenient. In other words, he may have died outside the CWGC cut-off dates or died in the early 1920s of a war-related illness when he was a civilian. In other words, checking the CWGC register, or death certificates (zero is a baby) until the end of 1919 is not enough. I would find out when the war memorial was unveiled (might be 1923 or later). You say he was your uncle. Do you or your family have a photo of him in uniform, or have his medals? When/where did Harry serve/die, according to family legend. If he died while serving in the forces, his family would have received a bronze memorial plaque (along with a scroll recording his regiment, ship etc) which has his name on it. Do you, or the family, have these items? Do you know for a fact that the H Newman on the Campton memorial was your man. Was there anyone else living in the village called H Newman, such as the soldier (killed in 1914) who was born a few miles up the road....?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeppoSapone Posted 22 November , 2004 Share Posted 22 November , 2004 Well, I still say that the surest way to do this is to go via the "Newman Name Society". It is fairly likely that some distant relative has done all of this work, has exact details and even photos. This worked for me. I found someone, interested their family history, who had all these details for my grandfathers third cousins. In fact, they put me in touch with the youngest son, who was then still alive and in his 90s. This distant relative, Sid Newman, sent me photos himself and of his brothers in WW1 uniform. He even sent me a wartime photo of the grave of his elder brother - E A "Ted" Newman, MM, of the 8th Lincolns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newman Posted 22 November , 2004 Author Share Posted 22 November , 2004 Thanks BeppoSapone. I have now tracked down the correct organisation and am pursuing that possible lead. Thanks Racing Teapots. I remember my mother saying that her brother was killed as a soldier in the first world war but I have no photos, no medals and no memorabilia of any kind. My mother was the youngest of the family having been born in 1907 so was only 7 years old when the war started. Her mother had 13 children between 1885 and 1907. My grandparents were looked after during their failing years by the eldest daughter born in 1885. She lived in Surrey but the grandparents were brought back to Campton for burial. This daughter moved back to Kempston near Bedford during her final years. She had no children and was succeeded by her husband who remarried shortly afterwards and wish to have no contact with the family. If she had any memorabilia it would have been lost at that time. On the War Memorial it says Harry Newman, not H. Newman. The only other Harry Newman in the area is the one already mentioned on this site whose father was born in Campton. He can be linked to my tree several generations back but he was definitely born in Luton. On whether he was still living in Campton, I have no informatio except two of his siblings moved to live near an uncle in Altofts Yorkshire, but I am not aware that he did. All the siblings are dead and many of the nieces and nephews. Those left have all been asked for information. I have also asked some aged residents of Campton but so far with no success. That is definitely all I have now. Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcderms Posted 22 November , 2004 Share Posted 22 November , 2004 It's also worth mentioning that the H Newman on the war memorial may be one of the chaps found on CWGC and NOT 'Harry Newman, my uncle'. Over the years, I have investigated the war time service of almost all my family and quite often information handed down as gospel has proved incorrect. I'd start from scratch, without the premise that he even served let alone was KIA and is now on a local memorial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedfordyeoman Posted 29 November , 2004 Share Posted 29 November , 2004 Barry, A bit more information but just adds to the soup, I'm afraid. Had a look at the Biggleswade Chronicle for 1914 but no list of Campton men serving. There is a note that Fred was taken prisoner in 1914 in Belgium and interned in Holland. Went to 1917 (since we had no casualty possibles before then) and couldn't find any reports for Campton. Beds Times may be the better bet. Looked in the GRO indices for WW1 deaths and found 8 Harry Newman (with no extra forenames). The Bedford, Leicester, ASC and Sherwood Forester are listed but none of the others. Additionally, however, we have entries for: Cpl 351246 Manchester Rgt died 1918 Pte 37558 KOYLI died 1917 Pte 8684 Hants died 1915 Pte 45491 Berks died 1914 I haven't done any checks for these men but it would be nice if one of them was a match !!! All the best David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedfordyeoman Posted 29 November , 2004 Share Posted 29 November , 2004 Barry, A check of CWGC discounts all men listed in my last note for a variety of reasons, so we're back to where we were. I'll keep up the hunt for you ! All the best David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newman Posted 30 November , 2004 Author Share Posted 30 November , 2004 Thanks David. I had really expected to find something in the Bigglewade Chronicle. Disappointing for me and for you after all the effort you have put into it. Regards Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newman Posted 30 November , 2004 Author Share Posted 30 November , 2004 Could somebody with access to SDGW look up Private Harry Burnage 9112, Bedfordshire regiment who died on 31/10/1914. I want to know whether there is any Campton connection. I have reason to believe that Harry Newman's elder sister may have been registered as Rose Burnage, having been born out of wedlock. His mother was Emily Jane Devereux before she was married. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedfordyeoman Posted 28 December , 2004 Share Posted 28 December , 2004 Barry, A solution to the Newman conundrum ! The diocesan returns of deaths for WW1 show Harry Newman as a Corporal in the Notts & Derby regiment, so you have the details for his death in 1917. I had progressed to the Beds Times for 1918 before getting this information, and, obviously, there was no mention of him although I noted that one of the Devereux won the DCM with the Tank Corps. I'll see if there is an obit in the BT when I get back in action next week. All the best David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedfordyeoman Posted 28 December , 2004 Share Posted 28 December , 2004 Barry, Forgot to post reply to your last note. Burnage is shown in SWD as born and living in Bedford. All the best David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now