Kut Cruelty - William Fratel

[charlie962]

Isabel, BJKBJK has not visited forum since Oct last thus I'll send  a pm hoping it generates an email.

charlie

[Isabel Sheridan]

10 minutes ago, charlie962 said:

welcome Isabel,

I would be fascinated to hear this. There are ALWAYS at least two faces to a story. Having reminded myself that the Turkish Camp Commandants and higher Officials got of scot-free at the end of the war despite an extensive dossier of evidence against them and reccommendations for war-crimes trial, it is clear that in part Fratel was an easier target and thus sacrificed. It does not excuse the 'lapse' for that 3 month period when he was in charge but does give some perspective.

 

Charlie

My grandmother was living with us (in London) in the late 1960s when the subject of a court case cropped up, in the context of a family member that was a doctor or surgeon, thought to be her father's brother.  Said family member had been court martialled for treating the wounded on the battle-front alike - in the sense that he prioritised the wounded according to the severity of their injuries, not the colour of their uniforms, which, in a war setting, was wrong, apparently.  There was also another story, which I found hard to believe, and this was about the same person poisoning the drinking water for the German troops, but the British drank it in error instead. Hence the court martial.  My nana wasn't 100% sure which story was correct,  just that there was something in the family history on her father's side that might have had a negative impact on my brother's security clearance for the army. At the time, my brother (then aged 17) had passed all his trade examinations to become a radio operator in the Royal Signals, but was suddenly put on manual duties (digging holes for telegraph poles) without any warning.  My dad wrote to our MP for an explanation but never did get a response and to this day my brother still doesn't know why there was a problem with his clearance, 

[charlie962]

1 hour ago, Isabel Sheridan said:

My nana wasn't 100% sure which story was correct, 

I suspect that neither was correct. But it is always possible the William Fratel story was merged with another Fratel story to make this? There was a brother who was also Indian SubordinateMedical Department in 14-18 and subsequently Lt IMD- Eugene.

Isabel, thanks for that. It is very often the case that family stories handed down get corrupted, particularly if there is something unpleasant. Less embarassment today but socially terribly important in the days of the Empire.

 

I cannot imagine William Fratel's  history would have any effect on your brother's career.

 

There are trees on Ancestry for Theodore Fratel and descendants, but they seem a bit confused and dates seem odd (eg we have father and son Theodore dying in 1938, father aged 106 !!). Given what you have noted about remarriage then that adds another layer of complication.

 

Charlie

Edited 13 March , 2021 by charlie962

[Isabel Sheridan]

Thanks for this, I'll pass the info on to my brother. As for the Fratel tree, as you point out, it is indeed confusing.  I have not seen it on Ancestry but believe there are at least three Theodore Fratels on there, one of whom must be my GG grandfather. I am pretty sure that I am related to Archie Fratel and would be interested in hearing from any relatives on this side of the family.

[BJKBJK]

8 hours ago, Isabel Sheridan said:

I think we might be related. My great grandfather was a Frederick Fratel, who had a brother, Archie. Their father, Thedore Fratel, appears to have married twice, the second time to an Emma Neroy, who, judging from the photo I have, is much younger than Theodore.  I believe Frederick and Archie are from the first marriage, but unfortunately I do not have any details of this except that Frederick, allegedly, was born in France. The family story (told by my grandmother, Lena Smythe, nee Fratel) about the court martial is very different to what is cited here and is another reason for my interest in it. Isabel Sheridan

Good morning, Isabel. It would be wonderful to get some more details about the Fratel side. My understanding is that  my grandfather Archie is the son of Emma Neroy and had two older half brothers William and Eugene. Freddy was his brother. Our family story was Theo was born in Nantes but I have found no records. Archie came to Australia in 1950 after serving with the British India army as a Major in WW2. 

[Isabel Sheridan]

I have a photograph of Theo and Emma with three of their sons, two of whom I believe are Frederick and Archie. It would be easier to communicate on email - if that is okay with you - as I'm not great with copying and posting stuff on-line, also I'm conscious that this is perhaps not the right forum for family discussions such as this.  And I don't want to break any rules!  My email address is xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Look forward to hearing from you again.  

[Michelle Young]

Please use personal messages to communicate. I’ve removed your email address from public view as spammers can harvest information from the forum.

Michelle 

[Isabel Sheridan]

Michelle, thank you for doing this, and my apologies for any infringement(s) of your rules.  As you will have seen from the message, the subject matter has moved on from Kut Cruelty to more of a family matter and I wasn't too sure what to do. 

[BJKBJK]

Thank you, Michelle. I got caught up in the moment and lost sight of this detail.