Pre-War Cloth Shoulder Titles, Rank and Insignia photos.

[elliot#1]

40 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

Not 100% clear, but this shows a soldier of the 2nd Battalion (Queen’s) Royal West Surrey Regiment.  His title is QUEEN’S in white on scarlet.  Dressed for walking out in the early pattern 1902 Service Dress with removable shoulder straps, he has one good conduct badge (stripe), wears a dark blue Field Service Cap, and Slade Wallace pattern belt, carries a swagger stick as per regulation, and most interestingly wears shoes and trousers (the latter as he would have done with a scarlet frock), rather than boots and puttees.  As the headdress pre-dates the Brodrick cap, and puttees began issue at home (in Britain)  around the same time, the photo must have been taken in 1902.

 

 

 

 

Very nice, thanks for sharing. Looks like a larger battalion indicator number (2) than we usually see!

[FROGSMILE]

20 minutes ago, elliot#1 said:

 

Very nice, thanks for sharing. Looks like a larger battalion indicator number (2) than we usually see!

 

The numbers for regular battalions were generally larger (certainly at first anyway), it was the VB numbers that were smaller, as they had to incorporate the ‘V’ too.  Perhaps both used the smaller number as an expedient, cost-saving measure later on, I am unsure.

Edited 23 May , 2019 by FROGSMILE

[Toby Brayley]

I have been after an image of the large 1st Class Scout badge on SD for a while and then two come along at once (courtesy of a swap with a GWF member!). A wonderful shot of the badge with the Coldstream Guards, the backing is clearly evident here. The postcard was sent in November 1911.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 29 May , 2019 by Toby Brayley

[Toby Brayley]

Once again the backing is clearly evident in this unsent and undated postcard. 

[Muerrisch]

Very nice.

The backing was [very unusually] described as "black".

The large versions of the scout badges were discontinued in 1907 but I doubt that anyone with a large one was keen to swap for the small one when "walking out".

[Toby Brayley]

I should say 3 come along at once! Here is a large  cloth variant on Simplified SD. 

 

They look to be East Surreys. 

 

Edited 30 May , 2019 by Toby Brayley

[Toby Brayley]

Further to post #376 'Acting Sergeant Major' of a TF Battalion. L.I affiliated, sadly the rip on the cap has gone right through his cap badge.  

 

 

[FROGSMILE]

The black buttons should help to ID the battalion concerned.  The badge looks a bit like a blackened DCLI.  Can you reposition the folds of the rip in such a way as to make a guess at the badge?

Quite a rare view of the original 02 SD as worn by WOs/Sgt Majs of Battalion.

Edited 30 May , 2019 by FROGSMILE

[Dave1418]

Looks like he’s borrowed the Sam Browne set judging by how far the cross strap and belt have been let out.

[FROGSMILE]

10 hours ago, Dave1418 said:

Looks like he’s borrowed the Sam Browne set judging by how far the cross strap and belt have been let out.

 

Yes, I agree.  The warrant officer dress items were not issued at public expense at that time and there grew up a tradition of the unit sergeant major being kitted out by various parts of his unit, e.g. sergeants’ mess, officers’ mess, etc.  Some items were also often passed over by the previous SM if he was leaving the Army rather than commissioning as a quartermaster.

Edited 31 May , 2019 by FROGSMILE

[Toby Brayley]

21 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

The black buttons should help to ID the battalion concerned.  The badge looks a bit like a blackened DCLI.  Can you reposition the folds of the rip in such a way as to make a guess at the badge?

Quite a rare view of the original 02 SD as worn by WOs/Sgt Majs of Battalion.

 

Regrettably that was my best effort!  Have we seen the small brass crowns in use with A/Sjt Major before? 

 

 

Edited 31 May , 2019 by Toby Brayley

[FROGSMILE]

11 hours ago, Toby Brayley said:

 

Regrettably that was my best effort!  Have we seen the small brass crowns in use with A/Sjt Major before? 

 

 

 

No, I’ve not seen small crowns like that before, and most significantly it’s blackened to match the buttons.  I realised the photo is your best effort, and a great job you have done, I just wondered what you could see with the Mark I eyeball and the photo in your hand.  Does it look like DCLI to you?  I vaguely recall that their was a VB/TF battalion of their’s that might have worn a black badge, but I’m not 100% sure.  Alternatively might it be DLI, or 7th Battalion, Welsh Regiment.

Edited 31 May , 2019 by FROGSMILE

[58 Div Mule]

'Tighter' lower curve of the strung bugle horn?

 

58DM.

[Toby Brayley]

10 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

 

No, I’ve not seen small crowns like that before, and most significantly it’s blackened to match the buttons.  I realised the photo is your best effort, and a great job you have done, I just wondered what you could see with the Mark I eyeball and the photo in your hand.  Does it look like DCLI to you?  I vaguely recall that their was a VB/TF battalion of their’s that might have worn a black badge, but I’m not 100% sure.  Alternatively might it be DLI, or 7th Battalion, Welsh Regiment.

 

 

 

 

It is a shame! but I would agree on it being a strung horn with letters.  DLI would also be my best bet. 

 

regards Toby 

 

 

Edited 1 June , 2019 by Toby Brayley

[Toby Brayley]

Another postcard of the AOC cut out style shoulder title. Worn with a mix of brass and cloth STs and the usual trade badges associated with the AOC. 

 

[FROGSMILE]

On 01/06/2019 at 09:47, Toby Brayley said:

 

 

It is a shame! but I would agree on it being a strung horn with letters.  DLI would also be my best bet. 

 

regards Toby 

 

 

 

That would make it the 6th (TF) Battalion DLI from Bishop Auckland.  The battalion wore both black buttons and black badges, including shoulder titles initially, so it does fit.

Edited 2 June , 2019 by FROGSMILE

[Toby Brayley]

On 02/06/2019 at 10:02, FROGSMILE said:

 

That would make it the 6th (TF) Battalion DLI from Bishop Auckland.  The battalion wore both black buttons and black badges, including shoulder titles initially, so it does fit.

 

Thank you! I will scribble the info on the reverse, in pencil of course. 

 

I do not think the OXFORD title has featured on the pages before so this latest acquisition is rather nice. 

 

Mk1 SMLEs, Mk1, 15 round, Cartridge pockets for the P1903 B.E and P1903 Bayonets.  This postcard was from "Tom " on December 14th 1905, making this   one of the earliest , if not the earliest, dateable photographs I have seen of the new Service Dress Cap in use.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 4 June , 2019 by Toby Brayley

[FROGSMILE]

Yes that’s a super photo, and it’s very interesting to see the caps.  The absence of a battalion number and ‘V’ below the title, combined with their extreme youth makes me wonder if they might be from a Militia battalion.  Alternatively, I suppose, they might be recruit trainees at the regimental depot and so do not yet have their battalion number added beneath the titles.

Edited 5 June , 2019 by FROGSMILE

[Derek Black]

On 04/06/2019 at 13:35, FROGSMILE said:

they might be recruit trainees at the regimental depot and so do not yet have their battalion number added beneath the titles.

I think brand new.
Look how each cap badge is positioned differently, one off centre, one high and one low.

Derek.

[FROGSMILE]

6 hours ago, Derek Black said:

I think brand new.
Look how each cap badge is positioned differently, one off centre, one high and one low.

Derek.

 

Yes indeed, Derek, but that could apply equally to Militia recruits at that time.

[Toby Brayley]

K.O.S.B with pioneer crossed axes. 

 

 

 

[Toby Brayley]

Unknown Artillery VF. Trumpeters, Efficiency Lozenge/Star and Prize Battery badges. Unsent PC. 

 

 

Brass title. Beginning with C ending in S

 

[Toby Brayley]

Rather unexciting R.E group with a couple of cloth S.Ts. 

[Muerrisch]

5 hours ago, Toby Brayley said:

Unknown Artillery VF. Trumpeters, Efficiency Lozenge/Star and Prize Battery badges. Unsent PC. 

 

 

Brass title. Beginning with C ending in S

 

Trumpet [for dismounted duty, barracks etc] and bugles, with their two trumpeters.

Edited 19 June , 2019 by Muerrisch

[Toby Brayley]

25 minutes ago, Muerrisch said:

Trumpet [for dismounted duty, barracks etc] and bugles, with their two trumpeters.

 

And proud of them by the look of it. One of them looks very young!