Pre-War Cloth Shoulder Titles, Rank and Insignia photos.

[Toby Brayley]

He are some variations. 

 

 

BELOW: 5 button frock. "Frock Serge Military Police" Sealed Pattern. Introduced 1894 obsolete 1903, inline with intro of the 7 Button Frocks.

 

 

BELOW: A 5 button (pocket less) Frock  of the 1st  VB "King's Own Royal Regiment". Nice silver bullion insignia. 

 

 

 

BELOW: 5 Button frock, specific to 2nd S.LI. 

 

 

 

 

BELOW: The early 7 Button Frock with lower pockets and "jampot"  cuffs.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 14 January , 2019 by Toby Brayley

[Toby Brayley]

 

Below: Pocketless 7 Button Frock, marked to 2nd Warwickshire Regiment. 1910 Dated but modified from piped shoulder straps to solid colour inline with 1912 specs! 

 

 

 

Below: Similar in Wear

 

Below: Pocketed 7 button.

 

 

Both pocketed and plain 7 button frocks Wareham, 1914. 

 

Edited 14 January , 2019 by Toby Brayley

[Muerrisch]

Toby, very many thanks.

NB also India pattern 5 button frocks could be modified under official auspices on return HOME by adding additional lining ...... whether the mods included removing the India cuff knot [as in ZULU] I can only speculate.

[Toby Brayley]

Latest arrival, 4th Volunteer Battalion of the Hampshires. Beaulieu Camp 1907. Some very nice detailing here and wonderful shots of the  "dog gauge" cap badge, even worn on the slouch hat with " manoeuvre bands".   

[FROGSMILE]

A great view of the first pattern SD on the colour sergeant and he seems to wear a medal ribbon, perhaps IGSM, but I’m not positive.

Edited 16 January , 2019 by FROGSMILE

[Toby Brayley]

Sadly not one of mine but used courtesy of the V.M.S Facebook page. 

 

Pte Field, Northamptonshire Regiment. India 1907. A great kit layout and study of the 1903 Equipment, also a very rare shot of the Brodrick in India.

 

Note the S in Wreath worn by Scouts in India. 

Edited 29 January , 2019 by Toby Brayley

[Muerrisch]

Beautiful.

Quite early for the fold-down collar.

Marksman, scout, signaller ........ and something else above? Might it be a temperance badge? In that position there are a lot of badges that it should not be: band, drums, pioneer, ......... Too early for MG badge.

Minimum 5 year man.

 

Fabulous!

[FROGSMILE]

Great picture, but a real conundrum as to what uppermost badge is.  I don’t think Temperance badges were permitted on the arm.  My best guess would be a shooting competition badge, but they were more usually associated with Volunteer battalions or TF.  Really odd!

Edited 30 January , 2019 by FROGSMILE

[Toby Brayley]

Very odd indeed. Best i could do magnification wise, it appears to be circular.  

Edited 30 January , 2019 by Toby Brayley

[Toby Brayley]

A hitherto unseen example to this thread.  Volunteer Royal Army Medical Corps (RAMCV) it is unusual to see the V as part of the S.T rather than a separate or lower tab. There appears to be wording underneath the RAMCV, perhaps a location? 

 

 

Edited 30 January , 2019 by Toby Brayley

[FROGSMILE]

Yes I think it is almost certainly a location.  The RA, RE and departmental corps of the VF and TF all seemed to favour regional or County sub-titles.

[FROGSMILE]

57 minutes ago, Toby Brayley said:

Very odd indeed. Best i could do magnification wise, it appears to be circular.  

 

Am I the only one to detect a relatively large figure 8 as part of the badge?  If so, perhaps 48, or 58, to indicate 1st/2nd Battalion.  Note enclosed badge as an example of regimental culture.

Edited 30 January , 2019 by FROGSMILE

[Toby Brayley]

The discussion on my Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/groups/1885482761668080/) resulted with these being shared , from the 1st Battalion Northants. Alas, not mine but used with permission of Graham Bandy who owns the wonderful album.  Some fantastic shots

 

 

[Derek Black]

Were these badges ever intended to be worn in the field during wartime?

 

Derek.

[Muerrisch]

Most certainly ....... they enabled an officer or NCO other than the soldier's to determine a man's expertise, and they enabled the soldier to authenticate his expertise.

The Edwardian era soldier with two good conduct badges, marksman, signaller and scout was of an elite, a senior trustworthy man of intelligence, numerate and literate, physically fit.

These were the men who earned rapid advancement in 1914.

 

Regarding the album, I have a similar one of the Cheshires, picked it up for pence years ago.

[Derek Black]

38 minutes ago, Muerrisch said:

Most certainly ....... they enabled an officer or NCO other than the soldier's to determine a man's expertise, and they enabled the soldier to authenticate his expertise.

The Edwardian era soldier with two good conduct badges, marksman, signaller and scout was of an elite, a senior trustworthy man of intelligence, numerate and literate, physically fit.

These were the men who earned rapid advancement in 1914.

Thank you for the explanation.

 

Cheers,

Derek.

[FROGSMILE]

Unfortunately none of the other Northants Regt men seem to be wearing the same circular badge.  Curiouser and curiouser!

Edited 30 January , 2019 by FROGSMILE

[Toby Brayley]

Very chuffed with my latest arrival, the clarity once scanned is simply amazing. 

 

Volunteer Group with shooting trophy and the re-appearance of that Norfolk Cut "Service Dress" discussed earlier in the thread, the officer even wears one.

 

A nice display of shooting and efficiency/proficiency badges as well as QVC and KC crowns.  The photograph was taken in Wales, the quality is so good a Dragon can be made out on the officer's button!

 

Edited 31 January , 2019 by Toby Brayley

[Buffnut453]

If you don't look too closely, they could easily be mistaken for American Civil War Confederate soldiers...apart from the hats. :-)  The chap standing at the right rather exemplifies what I mean.  Rather scruffy uniform with lots of braid...looks very Confederate to my eyes.

 

Sorry for the diversion...now back to early War/pre-War cloth shoulder titles...

[Muerrisch]

Stretcher bearer behind the officer............. SB in circle red/blue/

[Toby Brayley]

4 minutes ago, Muerrisch said:

Stretcher bearer behind the officer.

 

 

I did not even notice that one! Thank you.

 

 

Edited 31 January , 2019 by Toby Brayley

[Muerrisch]

It is the one and only badge that I do not have an example of in my collection ....... that and the Brigade Supply Depot shamrock badge.

[FROGSMILE]

Superb view of the Norfolk cut service dress.  I have always felt it might have been a shade of dark grey rather than drab, does anyone know for sure?

[Toby Brayley]

Aside from the above, these are the images I have of it in use. 

[FROGSMILE]

Comparing the appearance of the cloth on the seated man in Norfolk service dress with his fellow in a tunic (grey?) alongside, it does look remarkably similar in shade.  That said the lower most man’s uniform appears drab, and matching his slouch hat.

Edited 31 January , 2019 by FROGSMILE