Pre-War Cloth Shoulder Titles, Rank and Insignia photos.

[Muerrisch]

8 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

And a gilding metal pioneer badge to boot!

 

Strange .............. not introduced until 1907. Can the photo really be that late?

[FROGSMILE]

9 hours ago, Muerrisch said:

 

Strange .............. not introduced until 1907. Can the photo really be that late?

 

I don’t see anything else in the shot to preclude it being that late, do you?  Perhaps one of the earliest sightings then.  Interesting to think that they were seemingly available to the unit before metal shoulder titles were.

[Muerrisch]

10 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

 

I don’t see anything else in the shot to preclude it being that late, do you?  Perhaps one of the earliest sightings then.  Interesting to think that they were seemingly available to the unit before metal shoulder titles were.

No, but the general thrust of uniform, weapons, even deportment suggests early, such that without your spot of the badge I would have been happy with several years earlier.

[Toby Brayley]

An unknown, Yeoman with 4 sets of crossed swords.  

 

No name, date of info sadly. I would suggest he has white facings so at least the Regiment is narrowed down.

[Muerrisch]

Nice photo but all the swords, although two different varieties, are for the annual skill-at-arms qualification so he is getting away with being improperly dressed.

[FROGSMILE]

29 minutes ago, Muerrisch said:

Nice photo but all the swords, although two different varieties, are for the annual skill-at-arms qualification so he is getting away with being improperly dressed.

 

I am wondering if they might be from some kind of formation level man-at-arms competition attempting to emulate the similar events held for Musketry, as the latter started the auxiliary units tradition of arms full of prize badges, and one can imagine the arme blanche wishing to offer something similar for swordsmanship.

 

I think that he is very likely from the Queen’s Own Worcestershire Hussars Yeomanry.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 4 December , 2018 by FROGSMILE

[Muerrisch]

Yes, possibly, although without wishing to be unkind, he does look a bit long in the tooth to win in competition against lusty sons of the soil hacking away at him. Still, the point beats the edge ................

[FROGSMILE]

8 minutes ago, Muerrisch said:

Yes, possibly, although without wishing to be unkind, he does look a bit long in the tooth to win in competition against lusty sons of the soil hacking away at him. Still, the point beats the edge ................

 

A wily old dog who gets to the point perhaps.  I suspect that the badges were from earlier times.  He might even have been encouraged to dress in his old uniform for one of these new fangled portrait photo thingies.

[Toby Brayley]

VF or TF Berkshires. 

[Toby Brayley]

Royal Artillery with Mills Orndorff Banodliers. They have an unusual and interesting county title.... R.A ?????SHIRE

[Toby Brayley]

I have never seen the Scout badge or the Distance Judging Star on a mess kit before!

 

 

Edited 14 December , 2018 by Toby Brayley

[FROGSMILE]

What a superb photo, Toby. Is he a Hussar or Lancer?  I can’t  recognise the uniform for sure without some colour.  The wearing of Mess dress by JNCOs was a feature especially of life in India in the 1890s where personal tailoring was affordable for junior ranks and commanding officers encouraged pride in such regimental uniform.

Edited 14 December , 2018 by FROGSMILE

[Toby Brayley]

I thought you might like it! Sadly no supporting info with the postcard at all, not even a Photographers location. 

 

 

Edited 17 December , 2018 by Toby Brayley

[Toby Brayley]

Battalion Scouts of the 6th Hampshires (identified in #6060 in the postcard thread) with the large metal 1st Class badge on SD. 

Edited 17 December , 2018 by Toby Brayley

[Toby Brayley]

A soldier of a Territorial Force Battalion of the Royal West Kents with crossed bugles. . He wears Volunteer Pattern equipment with 1882 style pouches and 1888 style belt and braces, he still carries the "Italian style" wooden waterbottle. On his right cuff is the TF efficiency star.

 

 

[FROGSMILE]

Great picture, Toby.  Yet another example of a bugler from a former Rifle Volunteer unit wearing the special rifles pattern badge of double bugles.  Sadly it has not been used by rifle regiments since the formation of the Green Jackets Brigade in 1948.

Edited 17 December , 2018 by FROGSMILE

[Muerrisch]

2 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

Great picture, Toby.  Yet another example of a bugler from a former Rifle Volunteer unit wearing the special rifles pattern badge of double bugles.  Sadly it has not been used by rifle regiments since the formation of the Green Jackets Brigade in 1948.

 

My notebooks appear to have later sightings of the badge adorning bugle-majors, up to "recent"times in full dress. Not too sure, but .........

[FROGSMILE]

16 hours ago, Muerrisch said:

 

My notebooks appear to have later sightings of the badge adorning bugle-majors, up to "recent"times in full dress. Not too sure, but .........

 

Yes, the King’s Regiment adopted them, I believe for CO’s and Adjutant’s buglers, but they are not Rifles and it is merely a modern regimental idiosyncrasy.  I was looking at the RGJ usage and also contemporary Rifles, their successors, and both were/are using single bugles but in typical Rifles colours.  I think this might be connected with the merger of the more senior 43rd/52nd with the RB and KRRC, and of course there was a degree of unification in style terms with the Light Infantry and the resulting band and bugles of the Light Division.

Edited 18 December , 2018 by FROGSMILE

[GWF1967]

Photo by Sunman.

R.W.F. Territorial band, Sgt. far right wears a mourning button; L/Cpl with medal ribbons and four efficiency stars. 

 

 I can find "Sunman & Son, Sunman T.G. and Sunman's Studio" in a list of photographers 1840 - 1940, but no further information. 

[Toby Brayley]

Great picture!  The L/Cpl appears to have QSA & KSA?   I do not recall  seeing a mourning button being worn pre-war. Are they 14 pattern belts or the smaller snake clasp type? I can't quite make it out, might narrow down the date. 

 

Regards

Toby 

Edited 19 December , 2018 by Toby Brayley

[FROGSMILE]

2 hours ago, Toby Brayley said:

Great picture!  The L/Cpl appears to have QSA & KSA?   I do not recall  seeing a mourning button being worn pre-war. Are they 14 pattern belts or the smaller snake clasp type? I can't quite make it out, might narrow down the date. 

 

Regards

Toby 

 

Given the black leather musical instrument pouches, Toby, I think that it's probably all Rifles pattern equipment.  The RWF TF battalions were all formerly Rifle Volunteer VBs of the regiment before 1908.

Edited 19 December , 2018 by FROGSMILE

[Muerrisch]

At this season of Goodwill I want to express my sincere thanks to the many contributors to this fine thread.

For me and many it is the part of the forum [together with "Postcards"] most visited and treasured.

 

Thank you.

[Dave1418]

Hi Toby 

I’d say that they’re most definitely 14 pattern belts going by the width, leather slider and brass brace style buckles on both sides of the belt. There’s the odd exception I can see with the earlier slade wallace style belt and buckle.

regards

Dave

 

Edited 20 December , 2018 by Dave1418

[Toby Brayley]

 

 

On 20/12/2018 at 10:30, Muerrisch said:

At this season of Goodwill I want to express my sincere thanks to the many contributors to this fine thread.

For me and many it is the part of the forum [together with "Postcards"] most visited and treasured.

 

Thank you.

 

It is a great thread and as you can probably tell, my favourite! 

 

A much better quality copy of Post #366. Courtesy of the AGC Museum in Winchester.   The Yellow on White APC title. 

[FROGSMILE]

2 hours ago, Toby Brayley said:

 

 

 

It is a great thread and as you can probably tell, my favourite! 

 

A much better quality copy of Post #366. Courtesy of the AGC Museum in Winchester.   The Yellow on White APC title. 

 

Superb photo, Toby. Not only rare shoulder titles, but also a view of the short lived coloured arm-of-service piped shoulder straps!