Irish Questions

[KGB]

Irish born in the British army peaked at 49.9% just around the time of Waterloo.

[Guest]

ello

 

I am trying to re-start this thread. I am particularly interested in any detailed accounts of the Curragh Incident.

[bootneck]

Martin

 

I assume that you are aware of Sir James Fergusson, The Curragh Incident (1964), I.F.W. Beckett, The Army and the Curragh Incident, 1914 (Army Records Society, 1986) and Paul O'Brien, A Question of Duty: The Curragh Incident 1914 (2014) as well as the Marquess of Anglesey’s coverage in volume 7 of his history of the British Cavalry. They should give you a good overview of the affair. I must admit I was not aware of Paul O’Brien’s book.

 

Bootneck

 

 

 

Edited 26 May , 2017 by bootneck

[depaor01]

Not sure how authoritative the work is, but I have a decent ex-library copy of A.P. Ryan's "Mutiny at the Curragh" (Macmillan 1956).

P.M. me if interested.

 

Dave

[Guest]

6 hours ago, bootneck said:

Martin

 

I assume that you are aware of Sir James Fergusson, The Curragh Incident (1964), I.F.W. Beckett, The Army and the Curragh Incident, 1914 (Army Records Society, 1986) and Paul O'Brien, A Question of Duty: The Curragh Incident 1914 (2014) as well as the Marquess of Anglesey’s coverage in volume 7 of his history of the British Cavalry. They should give you a good overview of the affair. I must admit I was not aware of Paul O’Brien’s book.

 

Bootneck

 

 

 

 Bootneck

 

Thanks for flagging these. I am not familiar with any of them except for the Marques' work on the British Cavalry. I fear the episode is too complex to fit neatly into a history of the Cavalry.... I am particularly interested in knowing if anyone has read any or all fo these and which one stands out. If the historiography of the Great War is any guide, one needs to do some research before buying. My bookshelves are groaning under the weight of some pretty average publications. 

 

Dave - an extremely kind offer but I have just purchased a copy via Amazon for the princely sum of £0.47 + P&P.I am attracted by the idea it was written within 32 years of events so the author may well have been able to speak to the key players. Martin

Edited 26 May , 2017 by Guest

[depaor01]

1 hour ago, QGE said:

Dave - an extremely kind Officer but I have just purchased a copy via Amazon for the princely sum of £0.47 + P&P.I am attracted by the idea it was written within 32 years of events so the author may well have been able to speak to the key players. Martin

 

That's why I offered it. I would imagine perspectives have changed since it was published so could be a good read. Maybe it's God's way of telling me should read it myself! I rescued it from a library skip along with other interesting old volumes a few years ago. Terrible shame I couldnt've rescued more.

 

Dave

[bootneck]

Martin

 

Ian Beckett's book is extremely useful and a good place to start.

 

There are a number of used copies on Amazon for under a tenner including p & p.

 

Bootneck

[Guest]

"The Irish in Britain 1815-1939" edited by Roger Swift and Sheridan Gilley arrived today. It is a sublime piece of research. Breathtaking in its level of detail. For anyone remotely interested in the Irish diaspora in Britain in the pre war years whose sons, denuded of their Irish heritage in their attestation forms silently and anonymously filled some of the ranks of the British Army in the Great War, this is essential reading. It is worth it for the bibliography alone. Saturation. Excellent. The prequel is "the Irish in Victorian Cities" which has been ordered. MG

Edited 9 June , 2017 by Guest

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, QGE said:

"The Irish in Britain 1815-1939" edited by Roger Swift and Sheridan Gilley arrived today. It is a sublime piece of research. Breathtaking in its level of detail. For anyone remotely interested in the Irish diaspora in Britain in the pre war years whose sons, denuded of their Irish heritage in their attestation forms silently and anonymously filled some of the ranks of the British Army in the Great War, this is essential reading. It is worth it for the bibliography alone. Saturation. Excellent. The prequel is "the Irish in Victorian Cities" which has been ordered. MG

 

   Better have a look at this one as well, by the same editors. Some essays on methodology (and problems) of the Irish in Victorian Britain. Also, Lynn Hollen Lees "Exiles of Erin" - it was remaindered a gazillion years ago so should be kicking around cheap.

Irish Identities in Victorian Britain Paperback 

[Guest]

On 5/26/2017 at 14:27, depaor01 said:

 

That's why I offered it. I would imagine perspectives have changed since it was published so could be a good read. Maybe it's God's way of telling me should read it myself! I rescued it from a library skip along with other interesting old volumes a few years ago. Terrible shame I couldnt've rescued more.

 

Dave

 Book just arrived. Mine is ex Blefast Public Library and has been defaced by two people from either side of the sectarian divide. One has crossed out London part of Londonderry and another has annotated the book with rants about subsequent IRA atrocities such as 'Killed by the IRA' written on the image of Wilson, to which another person has added Hear Hear. ..presumably the same one who crossed out London. A bizarre set of vandalism. It explains why it was 50p.

[David Filsell]

I underline the value of Ian Beckett's book

[Ron Clifton]

8 minutes ago, David Filsell said:

I underline the value of Ian Beckett's book

... which has the advantage of consisting of contemporary, largely unpublished, letters and documents - as do all the Army Records Society's publications.

 

Ron

[depaor01]

29 minutes ago, QGE said:

 Book just arrived. Mine is ex Blefast Public Library and has been defaced by two people from either side of the sectarian divide. One has crossed out London part of Londonderry and another has annotated the book with rants about subsequent IRA atrocities such as 'Killed by the IRA' written on the image of Wilson, to which another person has added Hear Hear. ..presumably the same one who crossed out London. A bizarre set of vandalism. It explains why it was 50p.

Wow. Thanks for the update. 

The library stamp and addenda add to its history. 

It's a concise summary of the troubled relationships that have plagued the country. I speak as someone from Dublin who has visited Belfast too many times to count and I love the place and its people. 

[Guest]

28 minutes ago, David Filsell said:

I underline the value of Ian Beckett's book

 Ordered. Thanks for the endorsement.

 

I am a big fan of Beckett's work. MG

[Guest]

On 5/26/2017 at 16:36, bootneck said:

Martin

 

Ian Beckett's book is extremely useful and a good place to start.

 

There are a number of used copies on Amazon for under a tenner including p & p.

 

Bootneck

 I have added all the books you mentioned to the OP or ease of future reference. MG

[Guest]

On 11/3/2015 at 19:33, Airshipped said:

The Dundee issue, and the related point of 3% declining to 1%, aren't wholly irreconcilable. The 3% lost an element on an annual basis to death or further onward migration. It was continuously re-populated by an additional inward migratory flow from Ireland, as it's own population growth in terms of offspring was contributing to the Scottish-born population, not the Irish community there.

For example of the 207,000 Irish-born in Scotland in 1871 and the 159,000 there in 1921 does not mean that the 207k declined by 46k. Rather, it could well have declined by 107k of the 207k, with the 159k in 1921 being mostly recent migration. Without cross-checking the 'death' component of births, deaths and marriages we're comparing apples and oranges.

https://books.google.ie/books?id=q6PwHF6FUYUC&pg=PA11&lpg=PA11&dq=irish+born+population+scotland+1921&source=bl&ots=W2Tm7r6P_C&sig=By5NXwyc8iiqvtBS5W8m7VP-irQ&hl=en&sa=X&ei=NQljVfC2IofD7ga6-oCgAQ&ved=0CDYQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=irish%20born%20population%20scotland%201921&f=false

 

Fascinating subject, best of luck with the research.

 

Airshipped - i now have this book on my desk. It is a supreme piece of research and I would strongly recommend this to anyone with even the slightest interest in Irish emigration to Britain. There is some fascinating analysis. 

[Guest]

I have just discovered Brave New World on BBCiPlayer which explores Ulster's diaspora in Canada, Australia and New Zealand. Cant understand how I missed this in the first place.

 

I am starting at the end with 'Back Home'. Quite educational.  Worth watching. MG