leofric Posted 11 October , 2015 Share Posted 11 October , 2015 Findmypast has released a national index of the Absent Voters List this weekend so I have been hooked trying to trace family members. Have now found over 16 grandparents and great uncles who served between 1914 and the end of the war. One of them is James Brooks who served with the 12th Hospital, AVC. I have two questions that I hope someone can answer for me: Does anyone know where the 12th Hospital was located. I''m assuming it was a New Army unit somewhere in France or Flanders. According to his medal card he went out to France in June 1915. Secondly, is there anything that can be deduced from his army number which appears quite small - SE/8927, is there anyone who can pinpoint an enlistment date from this. He was from Nottingham, about 34 when he joined and a Maltster. Hopefully there is an AVC expert out there who can help. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 11 October , 2015 Share Posted 11 October , 2015 Long Long Trail mentions the unit in 1914 as being at Woolwich. This might help? http://www.wartimememoriesproject.com/greatwar/allied/avc-gw.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leofric Posted 11 October , 2015 Author Share Posted 11 October , 2015 I think no 12 section may be different to the 12th hospital Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 11 October , 2015 Share Posted 11 October , 2015 In the link I gave 12 Vet. Hosp. is mentioned but not the location. Maybe if you go through the divisions they may be mentioned . From LLT. A number of Base Veterinary Hospitals were stablished in the theatres of war (this list is work in progress): No 1 at La Chapelle-aux-Pots until November 1917 when it moved to Italy No 2 at Le Havre No 6 at Rouen No 9 at Abbeville Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leofric Posted 11 October , 2015 Author Share Posted 11 October , 2015 I've been scouring the web today. Found a reference to the 11th AVC Hospital in Greece, but no mention anywhere of the 12th Hospital Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leofric Posted 11 October , 2015 Author Share Posted 11 October , 2015 Have found a reference to a member of 12th Hospital AVC who died of sickness at Etaples in1917. Edging closer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveE Posted 11 October , 2015 Share Posted 11 October , 2015 Secondly, is there anything that can be deduced from his army number which appears quite small - SE/8927, is there anyone who can pinpoint an enlistment date from this. He was from Nottingham, about 34 when he joined and a Maltster.Only had a very quick look at a single surviving service record (SE/8922) but that shows an enlistment date of 2nd June 1915.Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 11 October , 2015 Admin Share Posted 11 October , 2015 All the half dozen or so casualties from 12th Vet Hospital on CWGC were interred at Etaples, could be they were admitted to hospital there or the vet hospital was there. The 13th definitely was but I can't see either on the plan. You probably need to see this archive at TNA http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C6079721 Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leofric Posted 11 October , 2015 Author Share Posted 11 October , 2015 SteveE - His medal index card shows him arriving in France on 27 June. Would he be joining the action so soon if he possibly enlisted around 2 June? Kenf48 - it does appear to point to the 12th Hospital being in the Etaples area, doesn't it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 11 October , 2015 Share Posted 11 October , 2015 SteveE - His medal index card shows him arriving in France on 27 June. Would he be joining the action so soon if he possibly enlisted around 2 June? Kenf48 - it does appear to point to the 12th Hospital being in the Etaples area, doesn't it. Specialist roles which didn't require too much military training were often sent out to France quickly after enlistment, sometimes in a matter of days. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPT Posted 11 October , 2015 Share Posted 11 October , 2015 Only had a very quick look at a single surviving service record (SE/8922) but that shows an enlistment date of 2nd June 1915. Steve S/E 8932 Albert Hodges joined 3rd June 1915. Brooks and Hodges both went abroad 27th June 1915 with 12th Veterinary Hospital. There are a few others, but I can't spot a clue to the location. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 11 October , 2015 Admin Share Posted 11 October , 2015 The SE in his service number refers to 'Special Enlistment', in effect he had a skill the Army needed and would have been employed in that occupation. Usually seen with butchers, bakers etc in the ASC; a quick Google search shows malt mash was given to sick draught horses so I guess that's why he was needed. SE enlistments usually did a minimum of training, basically a couple of weeks to learn the 'army way'. They were not expected to serve in the front line an did not do infantry training. Like the medical hospitals the veterinary hospitals were associated with the base depots, however the whole of Northern France behind the lines was one vast camp. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveE Posted 11 October , 2015 Share Posted 11 October , 2015 His medal index card shows him arriving in France on 27 June. Would he be joining the action so soon if he possibly enlisted around 2 June?As already pointed out by Craig and Ken these Special Enlistments went overseas within a matter of days, the man I found went overseas three days after enlistment.Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 11 October , 2015 Share Posted 11 October , 2015 VETERINARY HOSPITAL NO. 12, COMMERCY, FRANCE WW1 Photo credit / source:freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com Could this be it or does it refer to US Army? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leofric Posted 12 October , 2015 Author Share Posted 12 October , 2015 Johnboy - thanks for the picture link but I think that this is the US Army Veterinary Hospital. Everyone else - this is fascinating. I knew you guys would be able to tell me a lot just from his number. Thank you. Just need to trace where this 12th Hospital was located now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 12 October , 2015 Share Posted 12 October , 2015 I think the caption may be wrong. If you magnify the pic it has Brest 19 written across the bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themonsstar Posted 13 October , 2015 Share Posted 13 October , 2015 No 12 was with the Line of Commication BEF from 17th June 1916 until 11th Nov 1918. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leofric Posted 13 October , 2015 Author Share Posted 13 October , 2015 Thank you but I'm not sure what that means. Could you please clarify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 13 October , 2015 Admin Share Posted 13 October , 2015 "Line of communication' troops were the 'tail' of the BEF i.e. that part of the Army considered essential to enable the front line soldier to fight. It's sometimes referred to as 'line of communications and supply'. I don't know the ratio for WW1 but generally for a modern Army (and estimates vary) it's reckoned to be 4 or 5 to 1 Chris Baker on the LLT defines it as, "Lines of Communication" was an army term used to describe what today we might call the army's logistics: the supply lines from port to front line, and the camps, stores, dumps, workshops of the rear areas. Unfortunately knowing they were part of the L of C of the BEF doesn't help with the actual location of 12th Veterinary Hospital. Incidentally there are a series of photographs in the IWM Collection which outline the work of the RAVC on the Western Front taken at No 10 Hospital Neufchatel, or No 5 Abbeville Cut and paste below into the Search IWM box THE ROYAL ARMY VETERINARY CORPS ON THE WESTERN FRONT, 1914-1918 Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leofric Posted 13 October , 2015 Author Share Posted 13 October , 2015 Thank you again Ken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 13 October , 2015 Share Posted 13 October , 2015 If the vet hospitals were organised along the lines of ordinary hospitals then it could have been located near the coast. It would have to be some where reasonably safe from attack. It would have been very difficult to move injured horses at a moments notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Cove Posted 14 October , 2015 Share Posted 14 October , 2015 Does anyone know where the 12th Hospital was located. I''m assuming it was a New Army unit somewhere in France or Flanders. According to his medal card he went out to France in June 1915. Some time ago while researching an AVC soldier I visited the RAMC Museum at Mytchett and photographed some old records plus some pages from a book entitled 'Veterinary History of the War' (foolishly I didn't photograph the title page but I think it must have been an official history). It included a couple of pages giving the disposition of veterinary units in the Spring of 1917. Nos 10, 11 and 12 Veterinary Hospitals were all at 'Neufchatel'. Neufchatel-Hardelot is between Boulogne and Etaples. There are photos on the IWM website of No 10 Hospital at Neufchatel-Hardelot, as noted in a previous post. There are also 3 soldiers from No 12 Hospital recorded in the CWGC database and they are all buried in Etaples Military Cemetery, although again they are all 1917 dates. I also photographed a manuscript book of Corps Orders covering the period up to early 1916. The orders mostly record transfers of regular soldiers into the corps but it also records promotions of regular and special enlistment soldiers. SE 8923, Private W Guss (or Gass) was promoted to Shoeing Smith and Shoeing Smith Corporal, both on 22 May 1915 which fits in with the enlistment dates mentioned in earlier posts. Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leofric Posted 14 October , 2015 Author Share Posted 14 October , 2015 Roger, That's brilliant. Thank you for that confirmation and for identifying the location of No 12 Hospital as Neufchatel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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