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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

Uniform of whose Air Force ?


charlie962

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Any thoughts on this uniform please ? Whose airforce (well it looks airforce to me), what rank, what is the shoulder strap badge and also insignia on left breast pocket ?

post-119876-0-69788800-1444152201_thumb.

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The style of tunic is similar to the Russian pattern, but the shoulder straps do not seem right. Perhaps Serbian Air Force. Certainly an Eastern European state with Russian influences I think.

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I cannot read the card but I am sure that someone will. I think that he is a Serbian officer either, on leave in London (popular as much of France was occupied), part of a military delegation, or attending a training course with the Royal Flying Corps (perhaps on Nieuports). There was a joint effort between France, Britain, Italy and Serbian forces based in Greece, in a theatre of the war known as the Thessaloniki front: http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39273

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He is Cadet Dmitriy Mihailovitch Zotoff (Дмитрий Михайлович Зотов) of the Russian Flying Corps, one of 70 Russians who trained as pilots in the UK in 1917.
His Royal Aero Club Aviators' Certificate is on Ancestry, with a photo which is definitely the same face!
Born at Belovodsk/Ukraine on 22/12/1897, resident at Garden St. 31, Lugansk. Gained his aviators' certificate on 7/8/1917.

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1283/31032_A200036-00077/13382?backUrl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fgss%3dangs-c%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26gsln%3dzotoff%26gsln_x%3dXO%26MSAV%3d0%26cp%3d0%26catbucket%3drstp%26pcat%3d39%26h%3d13382%26db%3dRoyalAeroClub%26indiv%3d1%26ml_rpos%3d3&ssrc=&rdb=RoyalAeroClub

See also:
http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29822

The writing on the back says "1917г. 16 мя, На помять отъ Zotoff", "16 May 1917, A souvenir/memento/keepsake from Zotoff".

Adrian

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Many thanks. Well done for identifying the man himself. It was just a postcard picked up a long time ago because the uniform interested me.

Having identified him, can one trace his subsequent career? I hadn't thought about Russian records but part of the fascination of research is that you never know where it might lead.

I see there is some discussion and photos on these Russian pilots on theaerodrome.com that I shall read

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Out of interest, IIRC there are several graves on Russian aviators at King's Worthy, just outside Winchester.

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Out of interest, IIRC there are several graves on Russian aviators at King's Worthy, just outside Winchester.

Worthy Down, about a mile from the rear gate to the King Charles at Kings Worthy. was An Aerodrome and RFC Wireless & Observer Training School from 1917. The Russian casualties are probably a result of accidents there.

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Brilliant stuff apright (Adrian), I would have expected stiffened shoulder boards for a Russian, so I am greatly interested to see that not all arms wore them.

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post-119876-0-55804200-1444511710_thumb. western Daily Press 8.9.17.

There are a couple of good photos on theaerodrome.com forum of the "floppy" shoulderboards. I'm not sure whether I'm allowed to paste a copy here ?

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There are a couple of good photos on theaerodrome.com forum of the "floppy" shoulderboards. I'm not sure whether I'm allowed to paste a copy here ?

Perhaps you could copy the link and paste it here?

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Hope this works

here

Very interesting to see. The Russian officer seated has the typical stiffened shoulder boards but not the aircrew at the back.

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One or two of the Cadets wear a badge on the left breast as did Zotoff. Is this the standard russian pilot's wings?

I presume their pilots were not always officers, rather as the RAF had sergeant pilots. Did the RFC/RNAS just have officer pilots?

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The photograph in the OP is back to front; the man is wearing his wings on his right breast.

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One or two of the Cadets wear a badge on the left breast as did Zotoff. Is this the standard russian pilot's wings?

I presume their pilots were not always officers, rather as the RAF had sergeant pilots. Did the RFC/RNAS just have officer pilots?

No, the RFC had NCO pilots, Army style, just as the AAC do today. Some, such as former boy soldier, McCudden VC, and Mannock VC, became aces and very famous with the public. Both began their flying careers as NCOs and were later commissioned.
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The photo in the original post is reversed. You can tell by the way his jacket and belt fasten.

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You're quite right: I hadn't spotted that.

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but if you look at the photo in the link you will see the cadets all wear tunics buttoning this "wrong" side. The Russian officer and the RFC officer button up as we would expect. Bizarre ?

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but if you look at the photo in the link you will see the cadets all wear tunics buttoning this "wrong" side. The Russian officer and the RFC officer button up as we would expect. Bizarre ?

Well spotted! I am not sure, but it looks as if that typical Russian garment (a form of smock), not worn by the seated officer, fastened on the opposite (British 'female') side.

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You're quite right: I hadn't spotted that.

Sadly not as it happens.

but if you look at the photo in the link you will see the cadets all wear tunics buttoning this "wrong" side. The Russian officer and the RFC officer button up as we would expect. Bizarre ?

Indeed they are. Yes, it is certainly a little strange.

Well spotted! I am not sure, but it looks as if that typical Russian garment (a form of smock), not worn by the seated officer, fastened on the opposite (British 'female') side.

It certainly seems that way.

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The shoulder boards have a winged propeller I think. But I've tried googling for pilot or cadet badges and can't find a match for the breast badge? Nor for the badge on the front of his sidecap.

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In the words of Boney M: "Oh, those Russians".

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