CWGC confirms that John Kipling is buried in the correct grave

[Muerrisch]

The final proof-read of the article in reply to Parker & Legg is complete and is due to appear in ST! issue 108.

Huge thanks to the many Forum members for contributions without which it could never have been written. 

 

I will take the blame though!

[David Filsell]

Well done that man.

[keithmroberts]

Well done indeed.

 

Keith

[Bernard_Lewis]

Great effort by all contributors!

 

Bernard

 

 

[Guest]

Well done all.

 

Mike

[Muerrisch]

I forgot to add that the sterling efforts of GWF contributors will be appropriately acknowledged in the article.

[laughton]

When is Issue 108?

Thanks & Merry Christmas to All

Canada Pals

[Muerrisch]

I cannot be specific but I believe Spring 2017.

 

Personally, I can wait, as I have read it: too often!

 

Happy Christmas!

[stiletto_33853]

Great news, well done, Look forward to reading it.

 

[stiletto_33853]

Well it is in the January/February 2017 issue 108, pages 33 to 35 inc. Good read, well done.

 

Andy

[laughton]

Can anyone post a copy for us over here on the other side of the pond?

Edited 28 January , 2017 by laughton
Got it, thanks.

[Muerrisch]

The full article is now at:

 

 

[Guest]

Just wondering if there has been any feedback/response to the article yet?

 

Mike

[Muerrisch]

Yes, at least one letter to the editor, and it will be published.

 

 

Edited 13 February , 2017 by Muerrisch

[Guest]

Thank you. It will be interesting to see reaction to it.

 

Mike

[Muerrisch]

I copied the original Parker and Legg article, together with my rebuttal, to the following:

 

The Kipling Society: nice acknowledgement and genuine interest'

 

Irish Guards HQ; no reaction yet.

 

CWGC: can't see, won't see !!!!!!!!!!!!!! as follows:

Dear Mr Langley,

Thank you for the information that you have provided regarding the place of burial of Lieutenant John Kipling.

 

Lieutenant Kipling's grave was identified as being located in St. Mary's A.D.S. Cemetery, Haisnes, France. 

 

This case was concluded in 1992.  However, we will keep the information that you have provided on file for future reference.

 

Yours sincerely,

Enquiries section

[johnboy]

Perhaps you should ask them not to keep your info .Copyright and data protection etc!!

As they are saying that the case was closed in 1992 why would they want it?

[laughton]

If you wish, I can get the Case Number from David Avery, as I do a lot of work with him. We have appealed two (2) closed cases and both have been reopened on the basis of our evidence. We also had one open case, that was about to be changed, rejected as the information they had was incorrect. It took us a few years to get the CWGC Commemorations Group on our side, but we are now working together in perfect harmony.

 

Richard

Edited 2 March , 2017 by laughton
spelling

[Guest]

15 hours ago, Muerrisch said:

 

Dear Mr Langley,

Thank you for the information that you have provided regarding the place of burial of Lieutenant John Kipling.

Lieutenant Kipling's grave was identified as being located in St. Mary's A.D.S. Cemetery, Haisnes, France. 

This case was concluded in 1992.  However, we will keep the information that you have provided on file for future reference.

Yours sincerely,

Enquiries section

 

King James' Bible: Mark 4; 2-7

[squirrel]

Auto Pilate?

[Gareth Davies]

Stony ground.

[Muerrisch]

Laughton, thank you for the offer.  However, "there are none so blind as those who won't see", so I shall do no more. The truth is out there, and any thorough Google in future will find enough here and elsewhere to discredit CWGC and its adherents on thematter of 2nd Lt John Kipling, Irish Guards.

 

and, as we are being cryptic: 

 

a line from the 1939 film Gone with the Wind  

 

[John_Hartley]

David

 

CWGC has a "complaints procedure" which has an escalation procedure through the management levels. I've used it once when I had a response, I think from the enquiries section,  declining to give me some information. I appealed that and asked for review, which proved successful - the higher level of management agreeing that the original respondent had not interpreted CWGC confidentiality rules appropriately.

 

By co-incidence, this was also about the identification of a burial - I was wanting to know original burial location. In due course, though, they were able to provide evidence that the occupant could not possibly be the man I believed it to be.

 

John

Edited 3 March , 2017 by John_Hartley

[roughdiamond]

On 3/3/2017 at 08:20, QGE said:

 

King James' Bible: Mark 4; 2-7

 

I'm thinking more Matthew 7:6

 

Sam

[Stoppage Drill]

I must begin this post with both a confession and a caveat. 

Whilst being interested in the matter, it is not something with which I have been consumed, and I confess to not having read all contributions in detail.

The caveat follows on from that, in that what I write may be superfluous, repetitive, or irrelevant.

 

Much of the evidence and reasoning behind the erudite arguments made by several contributors hinges upon the fact that Kipling, J. was a second lieutenant at the time of his death, whilst the recovered body sometime thought to be his was described as "lieutenant". Those on either side of the debate have sought to give reasons why this should be, or have sought to debunk it.

 

May I therefore quote a short passage which seems relevant to this aspect of the debate, It comes from the elder Kipling's History of the Irish Guards. Referring to the 1st Battalion, he states that on 13th September 1915, "Captain L.R. Hargreaves was permitted to wear the badge of Captain pending his temporary promotion to that rank being announced in the London Gazette."