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is this a ww1 officers badge?


speedwobble
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Is this badge legitimate? I've been offered this as a ww1 Royal Irish Rifles officers badge but I can't find any evidence to confirm it. The only badge I've seen like this is a Victorian officers cord boss.post-52105-0-27107800-1441729534_thumb.j

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Best to visit the British Badge Forum where the expert experts live [not that there are no experts here but BBF members are serious "money where the mouth is" collectors ........]

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Yes, it is a RIR badge contemporary with WW1. It was worn on the officers Service Dress (SD) cap. See 2nd Lt James Hollywood: http://www.instgreatwar.com/page13.htm

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I am not sure it is.

Military Badges of the British Empire 1914-18 by Reginald H W Cox: Page 198.

“The Royal Irish Rifles. All battalions wore the black metal badge [illustration number 1608] and in silver for officers – except the 14th [Young Citizens] Battalion, the officers wore the silver badge.

post-299-0-18102700-1441740858_thumb.jpg

British Army Cap Badges of the First World War Peter Doyle and Chris Foster: Page 86.

“The Royal Irish Rifles The original badhe of the regiment was blackened but a white metal version of it was adopted in 1913. The motto Quis Separabit [Who shall separate us?] is from the Order of St Patrick: the harp and coronet are also associated with that order.”

post-299-0-11830300-1441740843_thumb.jpg

Regards

Peter

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Thanks for your advice guys, as I couldn't be sure it was as described I left it alone and it sold for £55. Instead I bought a 60 round bandolier. It had been listed as British army WW2 but that couldn't be right as it's a Martins 60 round 1903 model.

post-52105-0-80355200-1441747269_thumb.j

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That's interesting. Is Martin's the Maker?

1903 bandoliers were still being produced in the early 1940s. I have one so dated.

The pockets on this one look interesting (squarer than mine and most I have seen) - how many (pockets) does it have? The usual capacity for 1903s was 50 or 90 rounds with some 100 round ones (see here) is this different?

Chris

Looking again on a proper monitor -- there appear to be holes in the bottom of the pockets for the tips of the rounds. This with the capacity you list suggest it might be even more interesting....an early MkI land service as described midway down here?

Edited by 4thGordons
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It's definitely a 60 round bandolier, 12 pockets of 5 rounds, doubled buckle with steadying strap. All pouches riveted. The closest thing I can find is from the Boer war and were designed to carry Mauser rounds. I can't quite make out the maker but it is: ????????????? 1903 London. I'm not sure but where Martins not a Birmingham company? Would it be possible that the bandolier was part of the consignment of Mauser rifles and 3 million rounds of ammunition smuggled into Ulster by the UVF in 1913?

I'm just starting my collection so I'm on a steep learning curve.

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John Thorne is a member here - he will know if anyone will. I have sent him a message - but have a look on the KarkeeWeb page I linked and see what you think

The 1901 Land Service MkI bandolier is the closest I can think of.

From Karkee web: "L. of C. §10764 [the Land Service Bandolier, leather, .303-inch ammunition, 60 rounds. (Mark I.)...(The Land Service Bandolier was designed to take five individual rounds per pocket and the laces along with five holes for the projectile points in the bottom of the pocket kept the rounds in place.)"

The bandoliers supplied to the Boers I believe held the rounds in charger/stripper clips (as did he later 1902 Naval and standard 1903 pattern)

as to its source 100 years on -- anyone's guess!

Nice find

Chris

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I agree with Chris. Land Service Bandolier, leather, .303-inch ammunition, 60 rounds (Mk. I). See L of C. §10764 below.

This is the last model of British bandolier that was designed for individual rounds. This is earlier than Pattern 1903. Pattern 1903 bandoliers (there were both 50 and 90-round models) were designed to accept cartridges in 5-round chargers. Martins were indeed a Birmingham firm, but they are well known for supplying bandoliers and other accoutrements to the both sides during Boer War (business is business, after all...), and they received quite a bit of criticism for it at the time. Their Mauser bandoliers are similar to this one, but not identical.

post-8322-0-46362500-1441753163_thumb.jp

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Thanks guys. Sorry for being a bit thick but can I safely say that this is not WW2 as described in the auction? I paid £20 for it so it's not like I paid a fortune but it's WW! I'm really interested in.

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Yes not WWII, and I'd happily trade you a 1903 WWI version for it! :thumbsup:

At that price you did very well indeed, its a pretty scarce piece.

Chris

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I am not sure it is.

Military Badges of the British Empire 1914-18 by Reginald H W Cox: Page 198.

The Royal Irish Rifles. All battalions wore the black metal badge [illustration number 1608] and in silver for officers except the 14th [Young Citizens] Battalion, the officers wore the silver badge.

badge2.jpg

British Army Cap Badges of the First World War Peter Doyle and Chris Foster: Page 86.

The Royal Irish Rifles The original badhe of the regiment was blackened but a white metal version of it was adopted in 1913. The motto Quis Separabit [Who shall separate us?] is from the Order of St Patrick: the harp and coronet are also associated with that order.

badge1.jpg

Regards

Peter

Peter, the books you quote largely focus on other ranks badges and often seem to miss variations worn by the officers. It is the Dress Regulations for the Army 1911, that stipulates the cap badge worn by officers with khaki service dress. If you use google images and search "WW1 Royal Irish Rifles Officers", you will see that, similar to the KRRC, the rope boss and small badge was worn. http://89ww1heroes.blogspot.co.uk/2011/05/d-h-oflaherty.html?m=1
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Peter, the books you quote largely focus on other ranks badges and often seem to miss variations worn by the officers. It is the Dress Regulations for the Army 1911, that stipulates the cap badge worn by officers with khaki service dress. If you use google images and search "WW1 Royal Irish Rifles Officers", you will see that, similar to the KRRC, the rope boss and small badge was worn. http://89ww1heroes.blogspot.co.uk/2011/05/d-h-oflaherty.html?m=1

Many thanks for the correction / information, I am obliged to you. The wonderful things about forums such is this is that there is always much more to learn and there are plenty of like minded members always willing to help and inform and long may it continue. I have learnt much over the years and I hope I continue to do so. My thanks again.

regards

Peter

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Many thanks for the correction / information, I am obliged to you. The wonderful things about forums such is this is that there is always much more to learn and there are plenty of like minded members always willing to help and inform and long may it continue. I have learnt much over the years and I hope I continue to do so. My thanks again.

regards

Peter

Thank you for your courteous reply. I am pleased to have been of help.

Grumpy have good advice regarding the merits of joining the B&CBF here: http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=1

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