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Remembered Today:

Elias Round RFA 77353


Banksey

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One of my Great Uncles, Elias Round, was an early volunteer at the start of WW1, and served with the RFA. I have tried to establish some of his movements during the war, but without too much success (which I understand can be an issue with tracing men who served with the RFA/RHA).

His MIC states he entered the Balkans Theatre of war (2b) 2nd June 1915. Could any one please confirm where exactly this could be? Was it the Gallipoli campaign?

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Thank you for that.

When I've looked for divisions getting to Gallipoli, or maybe forward bases such as Lemnos, I couldn't see any that disembarked on or around the 2nd June 1915. They all seem to be either earlier or later. I guess I'll just have to keep looking.

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Thank you for that.

When I've looked for divisions getting to Gallipoli, or maybe forward bases such as Lemnos, I couldn't see any that disembarked on or around the 2nd June 1915. They all seem to be either earlier or later. I guess I'll just have to keep looking.

He may have been a draft to a unit rather than moving with a complete unit. The dates given for units arriving in theatre are usually just for the main arrival of the unit.

Craig

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I see CWGC has him as D Bty 86 Bde RFA when he died 14/11/17 and he's buried in Belgium

LLT says the Bde was in France/Belgium as an Army Brigade at this time having previously been with 19th Division which in turn only served in France/Belgium.

It also says D was a howitzer battery.

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Hello Charlie.

I visited Elias's grave last September, when I had a trip to Ypres.

When trying to establish more about the 86th Bde, from memory, I think the War Diary for the Bde ended 31st October 1916. Maybe this is because the later diaries are not yet available, or something to do with the breaking up and transfer of sections and batteries?

In August 1916 I have the following address for him:- 21st Division, RFA, 94 Brigade, 6 Battery, Mediteranian Exped. Force, so it looks like he was moved around quite a bit?

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I'm no expert but there seems a miss-match of units ?

94th Bde was part of 21st Div but served France & Belgium. There wasn't a 6th Battery in this unit.

There was a 6th Battery part of 1/1 East Lancs Bde RFA, part of 42 Division. This Division served Gallipoli 1915, returning , I think, to Egypt 1916 then France 1917.(see LLT)

Whether this gives any useful clues I don't know !

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The War Diary for 86 Brigade continues under WO 95 / 456 at the National archives but unfortunately not yet downloadable.

It comes up if you search 86 Army Field Artillery Brigade and covers 1.1.17 to 30.4.19

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Thank you,

Unless I get chance to visit, I guess I'll have to wait for it to become available on-line - I'll check availability periodically.

Thanks again.

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Hello again Charlie,

That's interesting regarding the miss-match of units - it gives me something else to work on.

The address I have is from a contemporary weekly publication, compiled by the Dawley Baptist Chapel, for sending to troops on active service (hence the printing of soldiers addresses on their mailing list at the time) It was originally called the 'Weekly Report', and later became known as the 'Dawley News'.

It is of course possible they made a mistake. Another error I think they printed was in an article dated 6th June 1916, reporting the death of Elias's youngest Brother at the Battle of Jutland (Noah Round, aged just 17)

The article states that;- (Brother's of Noah..) Pte George Round is in Serbia, and Pte Elias Round is now fighting in France. Actually George was an 'Old Contemptable' and served in France from the very start of the war, as far as I can ascertain, landing at St Nazaire 10th September 1914. (A Coy, 1st KSLI, No. 8938)

It is therefore Elias that I believe was in Serbia in June 1916. This would seem a logical move from serving in Gallipoli in 1915 I guess?

Is it more likely for a soldier to be moved to different regiment within the same Division', than to move Divisions as well?

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The War Diary for 86th Army Brigade RFA for November 14, 1917 (near Ypres) says this:

"Usual programme carried out, B & C batteries still working on new forward positions. D/86 heavily shelled about 1.0 pm. Large ammunition dump blown up, killing a/Capt Moore, W. E. & 2/Lt Humphrey-Jones, S. T. both of D/86."

You can probably get an idea of the actual location from where the casualties that day were buried. I have found 3 others so far, all from D/86:

COOK, W T Gunner 110558 14/11/1917 WHITE HOUSE CEMETERY, ST. JEAN-LES-YPRES
CAMPBELL, JOHN Gunner 27006 14/11/1917 OXFORD ROAD CEMETERY
ROUND, ELIAS Gunner 77353 14/11/1917 OXFORD ROAD CEMETERY
PRATT, HARVEY Gunner 831453 14/11/1917 DUHALLOW A.D.S. CEMETERY
HUMPHREYS-JONES, SHON THEODORE Lt 14/11/1917 TYNE COT MEMORIAL
MOORE, WILLIAM ERNEST Captain 14/11/1917 TYNE COT MEMORIAL
Also 2 more who most probably died of wounds the following day:
NELMS, JOSEPH EDWARD Gunner 155729 15/11/1917 DOZINGHEM MILITARY CEMETERY
WHITE, GEORGE FREDERICK Acting Bombardier 33941 15/11/1917 LIJSSENTHOEK MILITARY CEMETERY
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Hi David,

Thanks for the excerpt from the War Diary on the 14th Nov 1917. I find it very interesting - thank you.

I had thought other casualties from the same event would have been buried in the same cemetery, but evidently not.

Oxford Road Cemetery and Whitehouse Cemetery, St Jean-Les-Ypres are very close to each other and on the same road.

Duhallow ADS (Advanced Dressing Station) is also close by, so this would seem to be the area in which the action took place. (North, North-East of Ypres)

The two who died a day later, as you say most probably from wounds, are nearer Poperinge. Both cemeteries being Casualty Clearing Station Cemeteries.

I have found a third soldier of the 86th Bde, 'D' Bty, W King, who died on the 16th Nov. Again most probably of wounds, as buried in a Casualy Clearing Station Cemetery near Popringe.

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Banksey,

Not sure on how much more you know about your great uncle's family but Elias had 4 brothers who served;

Enoch his elder brother was KIA at Gallipoli on August 21st 1915 whilst serving with the 5th Connaught rangers

Noah his younger brother was killed aboard HMS Invincible at Jutland on May 31st 1916 aged 17

two other brothers also served George (1st KSLI) and Albert (4th KSLI)

There are two other Rounds from Dawley who also served and one fell with the Notts & Derby's but I have not been able to find a direct family link yet but the second one was a son of one of the brothers who also served with the RFA and in 1919 committed suicide whilst still serving. I have details and names of both in my records as I have researched all the lads from Dawley who gave their lives but unfortunately I am not on my own PC at the moment so they are not at hand.

will post their details when I am back on my own PC in the next few days.

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Here is some information about the other 'Round' lads as promised

Round, Albert (20)

Sgt, 79419, 459th Battery Royal Field Artillery

Albert was the son of Thomas & Mary Round who was the eldest son of Alfred and Sarah Ann Round, so this made the Round brothers his uncles. He committed suicide on October 31st 1919.

Round, Alfred (46)

Private, 22127, 2nd Battalion, Notts & Derby

Alfred had been born in Doseley (Part of the Dawley district) and in later life had married Jane, at some point moving to Newhall in Derbyshire, probably to get work as he was a miner by profession. Alfred was killed in action on September 17th 1916 West of Guillemont facing the Quadrilateral which was 750 yards east of Ginchy

Dave

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi Dave,

Thanks for the extra information. You may recall we did meet up some time ago, at the Elephant and Castle, to discuss the Rounds, and their involvement in the war.

Alfred Round, who served with the Notts and Derby regiment (Pte. 22127), was a Son of James and Mary Round. James was the oldest Brother of Alfred Round, Alfred being the Father of Enoch, George, Elias and Noah. There was another Son who served with the 4th KSLI, but his name was Alfred and not Albert. This comes from an Article in the Wellington Journal, dated 30th January 1915, whereby the text incorrectly refers to him as Albert, not Alfred.

Apart from this article, I have not been able to find out any more of his War Time activities. He died 5th October 1918 of bronchitis, asthma, and heart failure. His occupation at the time was recorded as 'coal miner'.

I am fairly sure that he is in the group photo of some Dawley Soldiers, of the 4th KSLI (C Coy.), which was taken outside the Elephant and Castle. This photo appears in Toby Neal's book entitled 'Owd Jockeys at War'

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