charlie962 Posted 30 August , 2015 Share Posted 30 August , 2015 I have a single Victory Medal to this man 79009 Cpl R Kennedy RA with an oakleaf emblem on the ribbon. MIC give Richard Kennedy 22nd Bde RFA , qualif date 6/10/14, entitled '14 Star, BWM, Vic. No mention of a mention! SWB card/Roll gives 5A Res Bde, Saddler Cpl, enlist 21.4.1890, Disch 15.1.19 aged 46, cause sickness xvi KR Medal Rolls add nothing extra 22nd Bde went to France Oct 1914 and remained with 7th Div throughout war (LLT) Unfortunately no Service Papers found for this long serving man. I find a Richard Kennedy, aged 39, collarmaker with 44 Battery RFA on 1911 census. Right age and trade so it might well be him? If so born Roscommon, wife (of 9 years) Bridget age 25, children Bridget (b Ireland), Kathleen, George (both born India) and Dick (born Woolwich). How can I prove the connection? I've searched LG but find no MiD. Can anyone help prove or disprove this ? After 29 years service I would have thought he would have some chance of LSGC ? but I don't know where to look in the absence of Service papers. Any ideas ? Any help much appreciated. Charlie . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battiscombe Posted 30 August , 2015 Share Posted 30 August , 2015 i cannot see any sign of him in LSGC rolls WO/102/19-20.. in the lists it is noticeable that those awarded LSGC with similar numbers [high 7xxxxs] are most abundant around 1908. It is slightly unusual for such an old RFA soldier to still be serving in 1914.. [most RFA senior NCOs of that age in 1911 were no longer serving in Aug 1914 - though most reenlisted..]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 30 August , 2015 Share Posted 30 August , 2015 There are 2 MiC's on Ancestry for him Neither show MID. Perhaps over the tears and going through many hands the emblem has been put on wrong mans medal? If you go back to the 1911 Census and work out the year of birth of the children born in India that should mean he was there. A search for 44 Battery RFA at that time might shed some light. You have a date of entry to theatre so if that is the same as the RFA Brigade I think it can be assumed that he was a regular before the outbreak of war or he had a very short training period. Where was he from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 30 August , 2015 Author Share Posted 30 August , 2015 Battiscombe, I assume his trade of collarmaker made him worth keeping on? Of course he might have behaved badly at one stage and lost his 'good conduct' johnboy,The 2 MIC's on Ancestry are two copies of the same card! If the 1911 census (which doesnt give army number) is him then born Roscommon. His children were born between the 1901 and 1911 census. Where does one search for army personnel in the 1901 or 1891 census, particularly if overseas? What records for 44 Bty pre 1911 could I find? thank you both for replying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 30 August , 2015 Share Posted 30 August , 2015 johnboy,The 2 MIC's on Ancestry are two copies of the same card! Take another look! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 30 August , 2015 Author Share Posted 30 August , 2015 Johnboy you are of course quite correct. There is one MIC and one SWB. I've been taking advantage of the Ancestry free weekend to update a number of records and it was for another man (Pannell) that I found 2 copies of the same card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 30 August , 2015 Share Posted 30 August , 2015 There are a lot of RFA units shown as being in India 1901/1902 http://s1.zetaboards.com/World_Empires/topic/4795489/1/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 30 August , 2015 Share Posted 30 August , 2015 Brief but gives inf on 44 Battery RFA Boer War Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 30 August , 2015 Share Posted 30 August , 2015 SA 2nd Boer War Medal Roll shows 79009 R Kennedy 74th Battery RFA awarded 1 medal and 3 Clasps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 31 August , 2015 Author Share Posted 31 August , 2015 (edited) excellent, many thanks johnboy. What a shame his service record hasn't survived. Does his army number suggest any place of enlistment? I dont know why my search on ancestry under Military didn't pick up his QSA : only when I specifically selected that medal roll collection did it find him. Edited 31 August , 2015 by charlie962 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 31 August , 2015 Share Posted 31 August , 2015 You could look for him on 1891 census. This might show him at a depot. You could try and see where he was in 1902 when he married. You could try looking for records for other men with similar numbers and see if they enlisted at the same place. Not sure but maybe RA had a depot in Dublin? The child born at Woolwich would suggest that at the time he was at the RA depot there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 31 August , 2015 Author Share Posted 31 August , 2015 I've tried 1891 census for UK on Ancestry but no luck. There isn't an 1890's for Ireland available? I've tried marriages around 1902 through Ancestry and IGI but no luck. Are army marriages recorded elsewhere? Is there another source to search for marriages in Ireland? I will do the longer exercise of searching for service papers with similar numbers. I note the other two points; incidentally the QSA clasps are Jo'burg, CC, OFS. there is a second record on ancestry dated 1903 headed transfers to reserve but I'm not sure whether this actually means it. Against his name is RAR (Royal Artillery or Regular Army Reserve perhaps?) It would be about this time he got married. The search goes on but you've already given me a new avenue; thanks johnboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPT Posted 31 August , 2015 Share Posted 31 August , 2015 All the men in that number range that I found (about 6 of them), attested in April 1890 and went to India in 1891, some in February and some in November. Looks like he may have gone prior to the census. In my opinion, the fact that we can be fairly confident that he was in India in 1891 and South Africa in 1901 does lend some weight to the idea that he's your man on the 1911 census. Proof would be great, obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battiscombe Posted 31 August , 2015 Share Posted 31 August , 2015 if he first enlisted in 1890, these were still usually 12 years enlistments I believe ..[attestation forms will show..] .....[later commonly 3+9, 6+6 years split between fulltime + reserves.. it changes..]. hence by 1902/3 this might end [not sure how Boer war service may have changed enlistments..].. In later years having completed 'first period of enlistment' it was possible to sign on again, or to reserves of various types.. A long service enlistment was 12 years .. i think as early as 1890s.. So ...he may well have spent some times as a reservist and then signed on again?? there are posts elsewhere on terms of service [which do change a number of times from 1890 to 1914..].. again this looks unusual in his length of service .. but quite possible, especially for an experienced saddler .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 31 August , 2015 Share Posted 31 August , 2015 All the men in that number range that I found (about 6 of them), attested in April 1890 and went to India in 1891, some in February and some in November. Looks like he may have gone prior to the census. In my opinion, the fact that we can be fairly confident that he was in India in 1891 and South Africa in 1901 does lend some weight to the idea that he's your man on the 1911 census. Proof would be great, obviously. Is it known where they enlisted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPT Posted 31 August , 2015 Share Posted 31 August , 2015 Is it known where they enlisted? Unfortunately, many and varied depots; 79001 Patrick Connolly from Cork, attested Pembroke Dock, examined Cardiff, joined Woolwich. 79002 William George Saunders from Colchester, attested London, examined London 79005 John Scott from Montrose, attested Leith, examined Leith Fort 79006 Denis O'Brien from Bagenalstown, attested Dublin, joined Liverpool.. 79010 Samuel Broad from Salisbury, attested Aldershot, joined Aldershot. 79011 Arthur Hooker from London, attested and joined Woolwich 79012 John Henry Hope from London, attested and joined Woolwich 79013 John Belcher from Birmingham, attested and joined Woolwich (February 1890 this one for some reason) 79014 James Brown from London, attested and joined Woolwich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 31 August , 2015 Share Posted 31 August , 2015 So if he was Ireland at the time it Could have been Dublin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPT Posted 31 August , 2015 Share Posted 31 August , 2015 Just out of interest; 78998 William Randall 13th - India 11/11/1891 78999 Richard Boal 18th coy - India 25/2/1891 79000 Harry Samuel Collins - Halifax NS - 29/12/1893 79001 Patrick Connolly - 40th - India 9/3/1894 79002 William George Saunders - 54th - India 12/11/1891 79005 John Scott - Deserted - Discharged with ignominy. 79006 Denis O'Brien - 18th - India 2/2/1891 79010 Samuel Broad - Discharged Ignominy 79011 Arthur Hooker - 6th - India 29/9/1891 79012 John Henry Hope - Deserted 79013 John Belcher - Deserted 79014 James Brown - Deserted 79015 Imprisonment then Egypt 14/3/1893 79016 Deserted, imprisoned, deserted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 31 August , 2015 Author Share Posted 31 August , 2015 Good point about the 12 year service Amazing to note a 50% desertion rate for this 'draught'. Conditions tough or recruitment incorrect? Means Kennedy has a 50% probability of blotting his copybook and compromising an LSGC award? Actually interesting to compare posts 17 and 2 ? I would like to try to find the birth records for the children, particularly the two in India. Where do I look for these two, Is there an army file? Hope I'm not too far off topic but it is with objective of identifying as fully as possible a WW1 combatant in the absence of service record. Fascinating at the same time. Thanks for the continued input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPT Posted 31 August , 2015 Share Posted 31 August , 2015 India Births and Baptisms Name Patrick George Kennedy Gender Male Christening Date 12 Mar 1910 Christening Place Kirkee, Bombay, India Birth Date 23 Feb 1910 Father's Name Richard Kennedy Mother's Name Bridget Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 31 August , 2015 Share Posted 31 August , 2015 The Ireland, Civil Registration Births Index, 1864-1958On Ancestry is only an index so no help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPT Posted 31 August , 2015 Share Posted 31 August , 2015 Ireland Civil Registration Indexes Name Kathleen Kennedy Event Type Birth Event Date Oct - Dec 1908 Event Place Kirkee, Ireland Registration Quarter and Year Oct - Dec 1908 Registration District Kirkee Page Number 17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 31 August , 2015 Share Posted 31 August , 2015 So Kirkee moved from India to Ireland? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 31 August , 2015 Author Share Posted 31 August , 2015 How did you find the India (I presume you meant Kirkee, india for both) records? Will they give a unit for the father? Perhaps the Army list will show me RFA batteries stationed there on those dates? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPT Posted 31 August , 2015 Share Posted 31 August , 2015 I've just found the actual baptism record for Patrick George on Findmypast, and father Richard is confirmed as Saddler, 44th battery, RFA. (Patrick George died in Chatham Kent in 1997). Of course, Kathleen was registered as "Overseas, Kirkee, India" in the Irish Birth Records. Indian records have Saddler, 44 bty RFA also, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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