Mark Hone Posted 24 August , 2015 Share Posted 24 August , 2015 One of the 97 names on our Bury Grammar School war memorial is HA Shaw. In the detailed roll of honour printed in the School List he is described as 'Lieutenant Harold Arthur Shaw, Royal Engineers'. After years of blithely assuming that he was one particular soldier I have now discovered to my horror that he can't possibly be that man, as the Christian name is wrong on SDGW. I am completely baffled. I can find no feasible candidate on CWGC, SDGW or Ancestry. He is the only 'mystery man' left on our Great War roll of honour. Can anyone throw light on his identity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 24 August , 2015 Share Posted 24 August , 2015 Any idea when the man died ? Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 24 August , 2015 Share Posted 24 August , 2015 Don't know if this is any help https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/28444/page/9141/data.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 24 August , 2015 Share Posted 24 August , 2015 Don't know if this is any help https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/28444/page/9141/data.pdf MIC for this man in the N/A - http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_fn=Harold+Arthur&_ln=shaw&_no=&_crp=&_ttl=&discoveryCustomSearch=true&_cr1=WO+372&_dt=M&_col=200&_hb=tna Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackblue Posted 24 August , 2015 Share Posted 24 August , 2015 RGA Major with a MC. Address on the MIC in Sussex....bit of a stretch for Bury? Rgds Tim D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 24 August , 2015 Share Posted 24 August , 2015 RGA Major with a MC. Address on the MIC in Sussex....bit of a stretch for Bury? Rgds Tim D Before we write him off we need death date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackblue Posted 24 August , 2015 Share Posted 24 August , 2015 Well he applied for his medals in 1921......does that help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackblue Posted 24 August , 2015 Share Posted 24 August , 2015 I see there is a Death Index record for June 1916 for Harold A Shaw of Bury. Born 1893 looks like middle name may have been Ashworth. Born 24 May 1892 died 25 April 1916. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Hone Posted 24 August , 2015 Author Share Posted 24 August , 2015 Thanks for this. I came across Major Harold Arthur Shaw but apart from his lack of obvious connection with Bury the main problem is that he didn't die. Not that that is conclusive-Bolton School have two people on their war memorial who turned out to have survived. I shall check the school list rolls of honour to see when his name is first italicized to indicate that he has died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Hone Posted 24 August , 2015 Author Share Posted 24 August , 2015 Thanks again. Yes, I did notice Harold A Shaw dying in Bury in June 1916. Born in 1893 and the right sort of job on the 1911 Census. Trouble is I can find no trace of him on CWGC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackblue Posted 24 August , 2015 Share Posted 24 August , 2015 He was a Civil Engineer. Perhaps commissioned and discharged before death? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPT Posted 24 August , 2015 Share Posted 24 August , 2015 You probably already have this; In a 1913 issue of The Clavian, an H A Smith is described as an old boy who has subscribed to the school magazine. Naturally, he's the only one on the list without an address. In 1912, "H. A. Shaw, Studentship Examination of the Institution of Civil Engineers" In 1915, Associate Membership Examination of the Institution of Civil Engineers" Edit - As Mr blue has already pointed out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackblue Posted 24 August , 2015 Share Posted 24 August , 2015 Boom! https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/29283/page/8735 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bingoworlddk Posted 24 August , 2015 Share Posted 24 August , 2015 Well done Blackblue. I found an H. A. Shaw in the Army List index for November 1916, but for some reason he does not appear in column 824a, despite being in the index. However, column 824a lists 2nd and 3rd West Lancashire Field Companies, Royal Engineers, Territorial Force. This ties in perfectly with LG entry. Steen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackblue Posted 24 August , 2015 Share Posted 24 August , 2015 His address on his death was 50 Moorgate, Bury. Parents Richard and Sarah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPT Posted 24 August , 2015 Share Posted 24 August , 2015 Could be him? Liverpool Echo, 4th September 1915 West Lancashire Divisional Engineers - To be Second Lieutenants - H.A. Shaw, Corporal. (In my defence, i'm getting the football set up at the same time) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackblue Posted 24 August , 2015 Share Posted 24 August , 2015 1911 Census http://interactive.ancestry.com.au/2352/rg14_23484_0119_03/19227237?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.Ancestry.com.au%2f%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3findiv%3d1%26db%3d1911England%26gss%3dangs-d%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26gsfn%3dHarold%2bashworth%2b%26gsln%3dShaw%26gsln_x%3d1%26msrpn__ftp%3dBury%252c%2bLancashire%252c%2bEngland%26msrpn%3d84801%26msrpn_PInfo%3d8-%257c0%257c0%257c3257%257c3251%257c0%257c0%257c0%257c5271%257c84801%257c0%257c%26MSAV%3d1%26uidh%3dtg7%26pcat%3dCEN_1910%26fh%3d1%26h%3d19227237%26recoff%3d%26ml_rpos%3d2&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPT Posted 24 August , 2015 Share Posted 24 August , 2015 Hang on an minute, so the man at 50 Moorgate is the civil engineer Harold ASHWORTH Shaw? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackblue Posted 24 August , 2015 Share Posted 24 August , 2015 Yup. Too many clues....I think they got his middle name wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBrook Posted 24 August , 2015 Share Posted 24 August , 2015 There several references to Harold Ashworth Shaw on ancestry. One a list of civil engineering students on which he is annotated as 'died on war service'. He was buried at All Saints, Elton, Manchester on 28.4.1916. His address in the burial register was given as 50, Moorgate. A case of non-commemoration? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackblue Posted 24 August , 2015 Share Posted 24 August , 2015 Nice one. Is there anything tying him to Bury Grammar School anywhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Hone Posted 24 August , 2015 Author Share Posted 24 August , 2015 Arthur might be a misprint in the list. I think that we may be closing in. I can't access the school's printed archives at the moment but will do a full search when I can. Possibly the third 'non-commemorated' on our War Memorial. We shall see. Thanks to everyone for their help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Hone Posted 24 August , 2015 Author Share Posted 24 August , 2015 The nuisance is that the school magazine 'The Clavian', which published detailed obituaries, ceased publication in February 1916 until the 1930s! We only have the brief entries on the school list Roll of Honour' to go from. The answer may well lie in the local press. I shall make a foray to Bury Archives. Thanks again, folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBrook Posted 24 August , 2015 Share Posted 24 August , 2015 Sorry, not a case of non-commemoration, he relinquished his commission on account of ill-health on February 25 1916. https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/29488/supplement/2089 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Hone Posted 24 August , 2015 Author Share Posted 24 August , 2015 Yes, lo and behold here he is in the Bury Memorial Book 1916 edition. I should have checked that first. Don't know why I missed him when I went through the entries a few years ago. Thanks again to everyone who contributed and helped overcome my wooden-headedness. I was looking in the wrong direction and was misled by the wrong middle name when the real story was actually at hand. RIP Harold Shaw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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