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Remembered Today:

Driver Charles Goodyear ASC, "Drowned" in Egypt


mrfish
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I’ve been asked to look at the service (and death) of T4/071627 Driver Charles Goodyear, Base Horse Transport Depot, Army Service Corps, who died in Egypt on 18 June 1915.

His MIC and medal rolls all state that he was “drowned”. They also have his death as 14 June 1915, as does SDGW.

Two questions, please. Is there any way I can find out HOW he drowned, and would anyone know why there is a discrepancy for his date of death between his medal records etc and CWGC?

Many thanks in advance

><(((((*>

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Have you tried looking for his service records on Ancestry? If they survived, the answers might be there. Good luck.

All the best,

Gary

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It may be that the 14th is the date he was last seen and the 18th the day his body was found and he was officially declared dead.

Craig

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Hi

Only the CWGC has the latter date, even one of their downloadable papers has the 14th (Effects also has 14th)

Cannot find any service record.

Graeme

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Thanks, All

No surviving papers. The announcement of his death in the local paper (Andover Advertiser) by his parents also states 18th. I did have a theory that he drowned while on bat.hing parade? A chap of the same unit died that way 2 years later, getting out of his depth in the Suez Cannal.

I've been wracking my brains trying to think of ways a soldier could drown? Any thoughts?

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Hi

I dont think it is that unusual, I have researched quite a few soldiers who have drowned ie bathing and getting into trouble. Some have been boating etc.

Biggest problem is 'no service record', after that the newspapers are the best bet.

Graeme

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Hi

I dont think it is that unusual, I have researched quite a few soldiers who have drowned ie bathing and getting into trouble. Some have been boating etc.

Biggest problem is 'no service record', after that the newspapers are the best bet.

Graeme

I'd agree - many times it's men being in areas they were unfamiliar with and getting caught out by the current.

Craig

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Thanks, Graeme and Craig

No papers and no war diary, as far as I can tell, so it's guess work. I have another local man that drowned in the Danube on a bathing parade, so I guess soldiers who couldn't swim plus deep or fast flowing water could often lead to an accidental drowning.

If I find anything more I will let you know.

><(((((*>

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Mate,

Here are some AIF Light Horseman I have that drowned in Egypt, I many others in Palestine and France;

McKAY Joseph Patrick 221 Dvr 8 LHR B Sqn (G) to CTU ICC 11-16 rtn 8 LHR 3-17 accidently drowned fell from bridge over Sweetwater canal Moascar buried Ismailia War Memorial Cemetery Egypt brother George 3 Pnr Bn

NADENBOUSCH Herbert Victor 3491 Pte 8 LHR 30R tos 2-18 drowned in Sweetwater canal Moascar murder or suicide? buried Ismailia War Memorial Cemetery Egypt sister Agnes AANS

RIDDELL James 185 Pte 27Bn ACo (G) To 1 ADH guard 7-16 to Hosp guard 14 AGH 9-16 to 3Co/1Bn ICC 6-17 drowned when crossing the Suez at Ferry Post by ferry when over loaded it tipped throwing a number of men into the water buried Ismailia War Memorial Cemetery Egypt

RYAN James Daniel 530 Pte 6 LHR B Sqn B Troop (G) died 7-6-16 and body found drowned in Ismailia canal at Cassassini possible suicide buried Tell El Kebir War Memorial Cemetery Egypt (Boer War DSqn/5 ACH (471)

SEXTON Richard 811 Pte 04 LHR 3R tos C Sqn 9-15 (G) accidently drowned in canal near Salhia when ferry sank buried Tell El Kebir War Memorial Cemetery Egypt

GUILLE Frederick William Ernest 1738 Pte 01 LHR 11R to Sig RHQ 1-16 att WFF drowned while swimming horses in the Bahr Youssef Canal near Tukh et Kheil Minia buried Minia War Memorial Cemetery Egypt (CMF 2 years)

HERD David Birrell 1377 Pte 02 LHR 11R Tos B Sqn 1-16 att WFF to T/Cpl 1 LHTR 3-16 to A/Sgt 5-16 reported found drowned in Nile had no money or ID suicide or murder buried Cairo War Memorial Cemetery Egypt brothers Rupert 13 LHR DoA and Leonard 3 DAC

KNOX Robert Gordon Duncan 15220 Pte 14 AGH HQ reported drowned body found in the Nile 8-1-17 near Benha last seen on Xmas day accident or murder buried Tell el Kebir War Memorial Cemetery Egypt brothers James AAMC, Francis 3 LHFA sister Hilda AANS died

S.B

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I don't know what the river situation was in Egypt, but in India there were drownings associated with river crossings where there were no bridges. or flooding had occurred. Troops either had to ride/walk across rivers and the current was stronger than expected, or there ere accidents involved with rafts, boats etc

Later 1930s examples from India involving the Royal Tank Corps

Photograph: River crossing: A Vickers Light Tank Mk 11A - Royal Tank Corps - North West Frontier - 1930s which shows the potential for an accident https://www.flickr.com/photos/39411748@N06/4192246627/in/photostream/

Obituary of Captain Frank Naughton, GC mentions an incident on August 5 1936, when one of the company's armoured cars broke down while endeavouring to cross the partly submerged Irish Bridge over the flooded River Indrayani, near Moshi, and one soldier drowned, although one was saved. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/1465110/Captain-Frank-Naughton-GC.html

Cheers

Maureen

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Thanks, SB, Maureen and Alan. So many ways to drowned!!! And such a terrible waste of life. Thanks for all your help on this matter.

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From the pages of the Wigtownshire Free Press 2 September 1915:

Alexander Keachie from Whithorn, serving with the 1/5th KOSB Transport Division in the Dardanelles, was tragically drowned while off duty. His father and mother, who live in St John Street, received the terrible news initially from the War Office and later more details were revealed in a letter to them from his Sergeant, John Cain, who writes:

"Just a note to let you know the details of poor Alexander's death. After our stables and early morning exercise, we are clear from 8.30 to noon. In that free time nearly every man goes bathing.

It is so hot here we are glad to get into the water. A squad, including Alexander, went off that morning and while in the water, one man, Johnstone, took cramp, and was seen to be in difficulties. Alexander bravely went to his assistance and was in the act of reaching him when a big wave swept right past. Alexander was then in difficulties himself. Two other men managed to reach both Alexander and Johnstone and pulled them ashore. Johnstone quickly recovered but Alexander did not. He was taken to the doctor's tent where two doctors attended him. From there he was taken to hospital but the next day we received the news that he had died without ever regaining consciousness."

The Transport section of the 1/5th KOSB did not go to Gallipoli but remained in Egypt. Alexander drowned in the Med. and ids buried in Alexandria.

Ken

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May have been a suicide but just listed as drowning to spare the family. Especially if he had been a good soldier then his CO may have put cause of death only & not circumstances since seeing "Drowned" most folks would think accidental. Just another option but sad & tragic in any case.

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By the mere fact that some 6 million British troops were engaged in the conflict, means that on a purely random basis, what you might initially think of as an unusual or even unique event, will probably turn out to be much commoner than might be imagined.

The same is true of deaths by lightning strikes, falling under the wheels of a wagon, or head injuries from hitting heads on railway tunnel parapets.

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Mates,

An example of a death in France

NORMAN Percy Henry 1335 Pte 04 LHR 10R to A Sqn 12-15 to 1 Div Cyc Co 3-16 to ACo/1 Anzac Cyc Bn 5-16 to Aust Corps Cyc Bn 1-18 F&B accidentally drowned when he rode in bicycle drunk into the Somme canal buried St Pierre Cemetery Amiens France (ASqn CMF)

MASTERS Herbert Victor 3 Sgt 1 LH Sig Troop HQ att 29 Div at Cape Helles 4-15 (G) to CSM AIF sepots UK 6-16 prom 2/Lt 10-16 to 28Bn 1-17 to Anzac Wls Sect "K" Corps to Aust Corps Sig Sect 2-18 F&B reported killed in motor cycle accident when knocked down and run over by lorry on the Allonville road buried Allonville Communal Cemetery France (CMF 18 years) (Boer War Bugler NSW AMC (404)

What about this

MATHESON Harry Mackay 306 Pte 1 Div HQ to Cpl AAMC 11-14 (G) to L/Sgt cadet OCS 11-16 to 3 SMA Oxford 1-17 disch to British Army prom 2/Lt RFC to 57 Res Sqn RFC att (obsvr) 67 Sqn (1 Sqn) AFC reported died exposure when lost in the desert after Christmas party possible suicide? buried Gaza War Cemetery Palestine (body found next day and also shown DoA 26-12-17) Ex S/Sgt 2 FAmb (7) (13) DNE

and rail accidents

POWER Joseph James 740 Pte 04 LHR 2R DNE relist 2R/8 LHR (609a) NTOS died in railway accident when he fell between carriages when Troops traveled from Alexandria to Cairo buried Cairo War Cemetery Egypt

I have others with being kicked, fell or biten by animals (horses Mules and camels) I even have snake bite but no lighting so far?

Accidents such as Trains, planes and automobiles, to the more common with men who die from being drunk, like falling out a window, to riding into the Somme cannel.

Others who die from drowning are more common as stated from swimming animals to and them selves to falling into the water by accident drunk or murder or on purpose, most never show any difference.

S.B

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Mate,

Most people forget that soldiers are people and they die the same as all of us but with the added problem of going on operations that add that burdon of added danger.

As a Former soldier with over twenty two years service, including operational service, I have seen my share of men dieing from all causes.

I had one mate who was killed riding his push bike home drunk after a Sgt's mess diner.

One very fit mate who just dropped dead for not reason, turned out a blood vessel bust some where in his head?

As a former Tank crew member I saw a number of mates killed in Tank accidents.

We have all seen men die and not just from bullets and bombs, so these deaths from accidents, and just every day life, are very interesting to record.

It adds to the story of our service men.

S.B

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