Uniform identification

[DaveR]

The Absent Voters List for St. Helens has:

1918

41 Hope St, Daniel Mowe, Pte. S. Lancs
41 Hope St, Richard Edward Mowe, 364869 Pte. Labour Corps

24 Cowley Hill Lane, Frederick Henry Mowe, "Cormorant" Wireless Tel.

4 Lingholme Rd, William Mowe, 432073 Cpl., R.E.

1919

41 Hope St, Richard Edward Mowe, 364869 Pte., Labour Corps

24 Cowley Hill Lane, Frederick Henry Mowe, "Valiant 2" Wireless Tel.

4 Lingholme Rd, William Mowe, 432073 Cpl., R.E.

Dave

[dravin]

The Absent Voters List for St. Helens has:

1918

41 Hope St, Daniel Mowe, Pte. S. Lancs

41 Hope St, Richard Edward Mowe, 364869 Pte. Labour Corps

24 Cowley Hill Lane, Frederick Henry Mowe, "Cormorant" Wireless Tel.

4 Lingholme Rd, William Mowe, 432073 Cpl., R.E.

1919

41 Hope St, Richard Edward Mowe, 364869 Pte., Labour Corps

24 Cowley Hill Lane, Frederick Henry Mowe, "Valiant 2" Wireless Tel.

4 Lingholme Rd, William Mowe, 432073 Cpl., R.E.

Dave

Thats excellent Dave very much appreciate the information, I confess I hadn't thought to check the absent voters

I will pass this on to the enquirer who will I suspect be very pleased to receive it

As a feedback to others, I did a report for the original enquirer, she has accepted that the photo is not who she was lead to believe it was and is most grateful to all for the help given in uncovering her relatives and the part they played

From her a hearty thank you

It also lead to finding a photo of one of the men she thought was in the first photo, so all in all a success I feel

Much appreciated

I also resolved the problem of no notifications, I know not how but the settings had changed to not sending an alert, so changed back and I received an alert of Daves information

[dravin]

The Absent Voters List for St. Helens has:

1918

41 Hope St, Daniel Mowe, Pte. S. Lancs

41 Hope St, Richard Edward Mowe, 364869 Pte. Labour Corps

24 Cowley Hill Lane, Frederick Henry Mowe, "Cormorant" Wireless Tel.

4 Lingholme Rd, William Mowe, 432073 Cpl., R.E.

1919

41 Hope St, Richard Edward Mowe, 364869 Pte., Labour Corps

24 Cowley Hill Lane, Frederick Henry Mowe, "Valiant 2" Wireless Tel.

4 Lingholme Rd, William Mowe, 432073 Cpl., R.E.

Dave

Hi Dave

Your absent voters has prompted a further question, its regarding the Daniel MOWE at 41 Hope street in 1918

The only Daniel we are aware of is by 1918, 58 years of age, surely this is well over the age for call up ?

Why would he be listed as a private of the South Lancs at that age

At first I assumed it was a younger Daniel but there does not appear to be one

He does not have a service number listed, which made me wonder if he were conscripted and awaiting call up (hence no number yet) but at 58 surely he would not have been called up at all

When were men assigned a service number? at call up papers?

Am I missing something?

[FROGSMILE]

Perhaps Daniel was a member of a 'Volunteer battalion' (previously VTC) of his regiment, as created in 1918. As volunteers these men could of a far greater age range than regular battalions. It might also be possible that he was from a 3rd line Territorial Force battalion, as again, some men were older than the norm, and often time expired soldiers who were utilised to assist with training or run stores, canteens, etc. thus benefiting from their military knowledge. As no battalion is mentioned, but purely the name of the regiment, then ostensibly any of these scenarios is feasible.

[dravin]

Thanks for the added information

I was under the impression that voluntary enlistment ceased in Jan 1916? is that not the case?

I have found no evidence of former service buts that is still possible

It seems likely though that he fits into one or other of the scenarios you mention

Certainly there are no other Daniel MOWEs around so it must refer to him

As a separate item, do you know when service numbers were issued to a man? I wouldn't imagine its when call up papers were received by the man, did call up papers name the regiment the man would join?

[FROGSMILE]

Thanks for the added information

I was under the impression that voluntary enlistment ceased in Jan 1916? is that not the case?

I have found no evidence of former service buts that is still possible

It seems likely though that he fits into one or other of the scenarios you mention

Certainly there are no other Daniel MOWEs around so it must refer to him

As a separate item, do you know when service numbers were issued to a man? I wouldn't imagine its when call up papers were received by the man, did call up papers name the regiment the man would join?

Yes compulsory military service began in 1916 for set age groups. These groups evolved as casualties grew with the upper age limit increasing, but there was always a 'limit'. In addition men could appeal against their call up and go before a tribunal. Men who were excused for various reasons and those in reserved occupations were soon obligated to serve in the VTC or perhaps Royal Defence Corps as alternative service, but again with age limits. The VTC eventually became volunteer battalions. Men who were over the age limit could also 'volunteer' if they were fit and some were accepted to fulfil certain roles.

When a man was enlisted he was first 'attested' by a magistrate (a legal obligation turning a free man into a soldier required to obey military law) and was then issued with a number when he reported to his first unit for kitting out. At that time if a man transferred, or was posted to another unit for whatever reason, he was issued with a new number.

I do not know for sure (someone will) but I imagine that call up papers required a man to report to a local recruitment office, where a magistrate would attest him, and he could then be allocated to a unit according to certain criteria, height, weight, age, education, special skills, etc. The latter usually determined by an army recruiter (sergeants usually but officers too in large city offices).

[dravin]

Yes compulsory military service began in 1916 for set age groups. These groups evolved as casualties grew with the upper age limit increasing, but there was always a 'limit'. In addition men could appeal against their call up and go before a tribunal. Men who were excused for various reasons and those in reserved occupations were soon obligated to serve in the VTC or perhaps Royal Defence Corps as alternative service, but again with age limits. The VTC eventually became volunteer battalions. Men who were over the age limit could also 'volunteer' if they were fit and some were accepted to fulfil certain roles.

When a man was enlisted he was first 'attested' by a magistrate (a legal obligation turning a free man into a soldier required to obey military law) and was then issued with a number when he reported to his first unit for kitting out. At that time if a man transferred, or was posted to another unit for whatever reason, he was issued with a new number.

I do not know for sure (someone will) but I imagine that call up papers required a man to report to a local recruitment office, where a magistrate would attest him, and he could then be allocated to a unit according to certain criteria, height, weight, age, education, special skills, etc. The latter usually determined by an army recruiter (sergeants usually but officers too in large city offices).

Thanks for the additional information, I am still unsure why he would be in the absent voters, first without a number but also at age 58, although I am surprised to read in William Spencers First World War Army Service records that 56 was the upper limit for conscription, I thought it was 50, so then I guess its possible, all interesting stuff , much appreciate your input

Thanks for the additional information, I am still unsure why he would be in the absent voters, first without a number but also at age 58, although I am surprised to read in William Spencers First World War Army Service records that 56 was the upper limit for conscription, I thought it was 50, so then I guess its possible, all interesting stuff , much appreciate your input

NB I presume to be on the absent voters list, the man would have to actually be absent from home