perejler Posted 27 August , 2015 Author Share Posted 27 August , 2015 Exactly. In our collection there also are a "Folding Minin" : "The Folding Minim" 5.5 x 16 by Negretti & Zambra London The Company, which was formed in 1912, manufactured the Folding Minim binocular, designed by J.H.Barton. Only its very high purchase price stopped this binocular from becoming very popular.World War 1 found Britain very short of quality binoculars and in June 1915 the War Office purchased 250 folding MINIMs from Negretti and Zambra for distribution to the Army, then posted to the Western Front. https://www.flickr.com/photos/62811941@N00/20108562524/in/dateposted-public/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/62811941@N00/20543165058/in/dateposted-public/ I read that of the 250 pieces send to the western front, only one sample was returned. "The folding Minin" were a sort of Gadged in those times and still are, it was announced as perfect for motor race, horse race and sailing, not the binocular one would think was particular fit for millitary use. But of a very high quality still only very few would have the money to buy one. This tell something about the problems getting quality optics. I suggest Full screen mode like in this link, if you want to see our collection that hold many more binoculare from round WW1 ; https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10205102269654769&set=a.10200768073022562.1073741825.1184722724&type=3&theater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikB Posted 27 August , 2015 Share Posted 27 August , 2015 ... The Company, which was formed in 1912, manufactured the Folding Minim binocular, designed by J.H.Barton. ... Negretti & Zambra was formed in or around 1851, not 1912. The founders were Italian immigrants who came to Britain for the Great Exhibition of 1851, and their company rapidly became one of our premier instrument makers - optical, scientific and meteorological. Their telescopes, compasses, hygrometers and barometers are generally very well-regarded, but most of the binoculars carrying their name may not be of their own manufacture - I think the Folding Minim is an exception to that. Regards, MikB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 27 August , 2015 Share Posted 27 August , 2015 I think the OP means similar to this [English is not his first language] 5.5 x 16 "The Folding Minim" by Negretti & Zambra London 1915 No: 2052 Made by BARTON AND LINNARD LTD. 196 Clapham Park Road, London SW. The unique MINIM, marketed exclusively by Negretti and Zambra, was one of the most unusual binoculars of the early 20th century with its specification of 5.5 x 16 and the ability to be folded completely flat. The Company, which was formed in 1912, manufactured the Folding Minim binocular, designed by J.H.Barton. Only its very high purchase price stopped this binocular from becoming very popular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikB Posted 27 August , 2015 Share Posted 27 August , 2015 I think the OP means similar to this [English is not his first language] 5.5 x 16 "The Folding Minim" by Negretti & Zambra London 1915 No: 2052 Made by BARTON AND LINNARD LTD. 196 Clapham Park Road, London SW. The unique MINIM, marketed exclusively by Negretti and Zambra, was one of the most unusual binoculars of the early 20th century with its specification of 5.5 x 16 and the ability to be folded completely flat. The Company, which was formed in 1912, manufactured the Folding Minim binocular, designed by J.H.Barton. Only its very high purchase price stopped this binocular from becoming very popular. Yes - thanks - that would fit in with what I know of N&Z. Although they claimed very specifically that all their telescope lenses and components were made in-house at Half Moon Works in Barnsbury, the binos they sold were usually sourced elsewhere. I'd thought the Minim represented a foray of their own into that market, but from your information that looks wrong. Thanks for the clarification. Regards, MikB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 27 August , 2015 Share Posted 27 August , 2015 It's only what I found. The OP will probably back with more info. I have never had an interest in bins but the OP seems to be very knowledgeable and has a good collection which should be of interest to others. It is surprising what these 'Opticians or Optical Manufacturers were making. barometers, gun sights, telescopes, compasses etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 29 August , 2015 Share Posted 29 August , 2015 Of the 7 'H Wilkinson' established as being in the Australian Imperial Force, how many were officers and, of those officers how many went overseas and how many became casualties? It might be possible to narrow down the options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 29 August , 2015 Share Posted 29 August , 2015 Harold ..Major. From Perth . Survived Henry..Lt. Went to France 11/9/18 after attending flying schools Uk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 29 August , 2015 Share Posted 29 August , 2015 Harold ..Major. From Perth . Survived Henry..Lt. Went to France 11/9/18 after attending flying schools Uk? Brilliant stuff Johnboy. Now we need some detailed research on these two officers such as were their units ever in the area where these binoculars were found and, not least, did one of them have a middle name commencing with the letter N. Few men at that time had just one 'Christian' name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 29 August , 2015 Share Posted 29 August , 2015 Neither of the men I gave have the second initial N. Unfortunately it is not known where they were found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 29 August , 2015 Share Posted 29 August , 2015 An interesting subject though. A bit different from guns! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 29 August , 2015 Share Posted 29 August , 2015 An interesting subject though. A bit different from guns! Yes indeed, quite good to be narrowed down to two possibles and I would have thought can be taken further still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perejler Posted 29 August , 2015 Author Share Posted 29 August , 2015 Sorry, have been busy a few day's, I add some foto's that ensure the name are spelled right. https://www.flickr.com/photos/62811941@N00/20109377643/in/dateposted-public/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/62811941@N00/20701294466/in/dateposted-public/ A foto that show it's condition; https://www.flickr.com/photos/62811941@N00/20524148149/in/dateposted-public/ P.s. I have searched my inbox for confimation of buy and shipping, That way I can find out where the seller live. It seem from other items the seller have on Ebay, that they live in ; Bagneaux, France https://www.google.dk/maps/place/Bagneaux,+France/@48.0416504,3.8982084,9.54z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x47eee43cee0d55bd:0x409ce34b30d6c00?hl=en Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 29 August , 2015 Share Posted 29 August , 2015 We need now to research if either of the two Wilkinson's were ever in the vicinity of Bagneux, in France? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perejler Posted 29 August , 2015 Author Share Posted 29 August , 2015 A detail only, but from what other types of binoculars, these obviously would be what was called " officer binoculars" . We have several german binoculars, where this was printed on the binoculars like you see in this foto; https://www.flickr.com/photos/62811941@N00/20858373961/in/dateposted-public/ --- 6X Goerz Trieder-Binocle. But I think it is important to remember, that a Binocular was a very expensive "instrument", and esp prism binoculars like the Ross 8X. They are quite special in design as they would look as if they are missing the middle piece. But in germany Goerz produces a particular design with the same design feature, I tried to search for the Goersz 6X20 "Mantel Glas" where the biddle also seem missing even it is not as this is how they are designed, but I found many tradisional WW1 millitary binoculars with same design detail , like this; http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/OTAwWDE2MDA=/z/ER4AAOSwHnFV3M5E/$_57.JPG Also All WW1 millitary binoculars orallmost all, was with individual okular focus. You had no "middle wheel" to adust both sides at the same time. This was becaurse Center Focus as it is called, was not thought to be as rugid as having Individual okkular focus. So these Ross 8X are millitary binoculars, also they are Officier binoculars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perejler Posted 29 August , 2015 Author Share Posted 29 August , 2015 Maybe it show better in the foto I just added our collection, why the 8X ross in question are a millitary binocular. In the foto you see the 3 different types 8X Ross produced in first and second serie. All in all of 4-6-8-10 and 12X magnification, they produced round 30000 pieces. But some was with individual okular focus ( mainly millitary) and some was with center Focus, mainly to be sold to private people. Left in the foto a 8X of first serie with If. middle a Center focus model and right the second serie millitary model, with individual center focus. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10207292640812679&set=a.10200768073022562.1073741825.1184722724&type=3&theater The design details I mention above, are easy spottet in that foto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 29 August , 2015 Share Posted 29 August , 2015 The two Australian Wilkinson's identified by forum member 'Johnboy' were both officers so that fits with the type of binoculars. The key question now is did either of their units ever serve in the vicinity of Bagneux. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perejler Posted 29 August , 2015 Author Share Posted 29 August , 2015 I think it is reasonable to look in the same area as where the seller have his shop. Antike and Vintage items like those in his shop, usealy don't travel long. I guess the Antike and Vintage buisness are not much different in france than how it is in Uk. or denmark for that sake -- there are localy plenty to gather and sell. Many Antike and Vintage shops get their goods by estate sales, -- still it is proberly the best to stay with the few facts there are, but I will try again to translate my questions to frensh and point to the discussions here, maybe that can uncover just a bit about their way to the shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 29 August , 2015 Share Posted 29 August , 2015 I think it is reasonable to look in the same area as where the seller have his shop. Antike and Vintage items like those in his shop, usealy don't travel long. I guess the Antike and Vintage buisness are not much different in france than how it is in Uk. or denmark for that sake -- there are localy plenty to gather and sell. Many Antike and Vintage shops get their goods by estate sales, -- still it is proberly the best to stay with the few facts there are, but I will try again to translate my questions to frensh and point to the discussions here, maybe that can uncover just a bit about their way to the shop. Yes, that will be a good idea and maybe in the meantime someone in Australia can research the two Wilkinson's traced and mentioned by forum member 'johnboy'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perejler Posted 29 August , 2015 Author Share Posted 29 August , 2015 One information worth to remember, the date ; https://www.flickr.com/photos/62811941@N00/20800554328/in/dateposted-public/ 13 march 1909 long before anyone could image WW1. Resons to write a date in a binocular could be some celebration, -- Google make to many results combining the datewith the other information, and I doubt the cause can be dound on the web, -- still... I mention the date as it could be what unlock the mysterie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 29 August , 2015 Share Posted 29 August , 2015 If, as you say they were military binoculars. then the owner was already in the army 1909/1910. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikB Posted 30 August , 2015 Share Posted 30 August , 2015 If, as you say they were military binoculars. then the owner was already in the army 1909/1910. ?Highly likely, I'd say - maybe joining his unit or graduating from a training college? That sort of gift from a comfortably-off family seems quite realistic in those times. Of course, year of manufacture was quite common even up to WW2 - I was looking at quite a nice pair of Kershaw No.2 Mk.IIIs dated 1941 at a street market only yesterday - but a full-text date, especially copperplate-engraved, as Perejler says probably indicates an event in the recipient's own life. Regards, MikB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perejler Posted 30 August , 2015 Author Share Posted 30 August , 2015 The Ross second serie these belong, was most likely dropped by 1907 when an important patent Zeiss belonged ran out. The details of that patent was that the okulars you look thru was more narrow than the front lenses. This mean a more "stereoscopic" view, and all other factories than Zeiss, was forced to make sure the in and out lenses wer either paralell like most of Ross second serie or opposite Zeiss's patent the okular distance wider than the front lenses. As soon as Zeiss patent ran out, "everybody" started producing binoculars from Zeiss's design. Second serie began with Ross's patent that Ross often printed on their binoculars, year 1900, of first serie Ross made only very few and they was protected by Bartons "patented cantilever design : https://www.flickr.com/photos/62811941@N00/14835240788/in/dateposted-public/ But very few first serie 6-8-10 and 12 X magnification was made, Second serie with round 30000 produced, was a more simple design without cantilevers and both If and Cf. ----- I think it is safe to conclute that after 1907 the second serie design were obselute, still all depending how these were sold, some could have been out in various shops. What I mean are that in Sydney there could have been samples of second serie for sale after 1907. Guess this count as facts. But this don't mean the price as how it would be today, would be lowened on "old designs", as these 8X Ross millitary bino's would still be expensive fine "instruments" with a Uk. price of 8£ 2 Sh in 1908 according to adverts, calculated into today's money quite a sum. I agrea they proberly could have been a gift in some celebration, the name and date writing are profesionaly made. I still wonder why "Fairfax & Roberts Sydney" would not consider taking them over, when I contacted them to ask details. I presume they could have had the witing made, this would have been that sort of service a juveleer shop would offer in those times where such firms sold more than glasses. As I allready said, "Fairfax & Roberts Sydney" allready had a pair of theater binoculars restored as a display piece, but I would think a prism binoculars that at those times had a very high price compared, and with a fine historic writing made in them, would be a far more interesting display piece. But they did not. --- I say so, as we proberly will not spend the money having them restored. I think that much in this tread would allready justify that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 30 August , 2015 Share Posted 30 August , 2015 It will add great interest if we could focus on who they were made for and what happened to him. It seems to me that there might then be far more motivation for someone to then want to restore them. Especially if the family can be traced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 30 August , 2015 Share Posted 30 August , 2015 Still not having any joy looking for HN Wilkinson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackblue Posted 30 August , 2015 Share Posted 30 August , 2015 The Australian officers put up - AFC lad was LT Henry Arthur. The MAJ was Harold Arthur Faulkner. No links I can find to anyone named H.N.Wilkinson. Needle in a hay stack I'm afraid. Seems like they have been a gift or presentation item for some reason? Uncommon for someone to get their own name as well as the date purchased on a pair of binos? Had a look through the local papers and can't see anything obvious. Rgds Tim D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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