ROYAL NAVAL RESERVE- WIRELESS TELEGRAPH OPERATORS

[horatio2]

Fascinating background. Thank you for digging that out.

One correction to your summary: it is not correct that all WTS ratings (WTOs) were promoted to warrant telegraphist. In fact, a check via the Admiralty medal rolls reveals that only about 140 of the c.500 WTOs were so promoted, with 360 continuing to serve as WTS ratings. What appears to have happened is that later in the war telegraphists were entered direct as warrant telegraphists, without going through the WTO 2ndClass/WTO 1st Class route.

The medal rolls record some 400 warrant telegraphists RNR but, as stated above, only 140 of these came from the ranks of the WTS ratings. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, horatio2 said:

Fascinating background. Thank you for digging that out.

One correction to your summary: it is not correct that all WTS ratings (WTOs) were promoted to warrant telegraphist. In fact, a check via the Admiralty medal rolls reveals that only about 140 of the c.500 WTOs were so promoted, with 360 continuing to serve as WTS ratings. What appears to have happened is that later in the war telegraphists were entered direct as warrant telegraphists, without going through the WTO 2ndClass/WTO 1st Class route.

The medal rolls record some 400 warrant telegraphists RNR but, as stated above, only 140 of these came from the ranks of the WTS ratings. 

 

   Thanks- The Admiralty file only goes up to the outbreak of war-with a couple of bits shortly after.  It looks also as if Marconi operators came off best- other companies were approached as well as Great Eastern Railway, Great Northern and Lloyds-all of whom seem to have provided men for RNR on CPO pay and terms. The file shows that,in effect, Marconi training was better than anything it already provided  at HMS Vernon and the like.

Edited 7 April , 2017 by Guest

[Guest]

But if it's "warrant telegraphist" then why are only some of the "warrant" listings holders of warrants??

[horatio2]

Not sure I understand that question but here goes.

 

To be clear, the ADM 377 listing of c.500 WTS ratings is just that: WTOs 1st and 2nd Class. 140 of these were (sooner or later) promoted to warrant telegraphist, joining another 260 directly enrolled as warrant telegraphists. All these 400 warrant telegraphists RNR, by definition, held warrants.

The ADM 377 WTS men did not hold warrants (the 'W' does not stand for 'warrant') until they were promoted, dropping their WTS official number.

 

Clear as mud?

[rolt968]

Coincidentally I was reading this afternoon a curious parallel described in Kerr & Granville’s book on the RNVR (p 113).

 

To try to summarise and I hope not over simplify. Code and cypher clerks at the Admiralty and staffs of Post Office and Marconi coastal wireless stations asked to have their status “regularised” to avoid white feathers and also being shot by invaders as fighting civilians. The clerks were made assistant paymasters RNVR. The superintendents of the wireless stations were commissioned as RNVR officers (actual rank not stated).  The operators were rated petty officers RNVR. Apparently the operators considered it a social let down.

 

RM

 

Edit: My understanding is that this refers to after the start of WW1.

 

(Why have I got two different text sizes?)

Edited 7 April , 2017 by rolt968

[Guest]

2 hours ago, horatio2 said:

Not sure I understand that question but here goes.

 

To be clear, the ADM 377 listing of c.500 WTS ratings is just that: WTOs 1st and 2nd Class. 140 of these were (sooner or later) promoted to warrant telegraphist, joining another 260 directly enrolled as warrant telegraphists. All these 400 warrant telegraphists RNR, by definition, held warrants.

The ADM 377 WTS men did not hold warrants (the 'W' does not stand for 'warrant') until they were promoted, dropping their WTS official number.

 

Clear as mud?

 

     Absolutely!!  Not doubting you- without the little rejoinder I would have assumed that "my" local man was WO-Now I will check.  I also have to find out why his base was listed as "Victoria Docks"- which suggests the WTR of RNR were controlled from a central location. My man was 19 in 1914- so I have to find out where he was and what he was doing until February 1916. Merchant Service looks likely. The difference with RNR v RNVR is now explained- RNVR was for existing RN (possibly Fleet reserve-I'm not clear on that) while RNR was to regularise the Marconi and other operators coming in.

[horatio2]

The Admiralty moved in many and mysterious ways to achieve wireless telegraphy communications.

As well as the RNR telegraphists we have been discussing, they also recruited into the RNVR telegraphist branch nearly 5,000 men, who were rated Ordinary Telegraphist, Telegraphist (able rate), Leading Telegraphist and Petty Officer Telegraphist, mirroring the rating structure of the already existing RN telegraphist branch. These RNVR men were not enrolled from the Royal Fleet Reserve (RFR), whose reserve telegraphists (ex-RN) were also mobilised into the Fleet.

 

It would be an interesting further line of study to see where the RNVR telegraphists came from. A few of these men were pre-war RNVR enrolments but the vast majority were wartime volunteers. My hunch is that very few had previous hands-on WT experience and were, therefore, trained as telegraphists from scratch. 

[Kitty55]

47 minutes ago, rolt968 said:

Coincidentally I was reading this afternoon a curious parallel described in Kerr & Granville’s book on the RNVR (p 113).

 

To try to summarise and I hope not over simplify. Code and cypher clerks at the Admiralty and staffs of Post Office and Marconi coastal wireless stations asked to have their status “regularised” to avoid white feathers and also being shot by invaders as fighting civilians. The clerks were made assistant paymasters RNVR. The superintendents of the wireless stations were commissioned as RNVR officers (actual rank not stated).  The operators were rated petty officers RNVR. Apparently the operators considered it a social let down.

 

RM

 

(Why have I got two different text sizes?)

 

firstly your different text sizes might be because you pasted part of it from your PC which has a different text type to the forum - nothing too bad though.

 

But more importantly - you have solved a mystery I had with one of the Dereham men - Now he's all finished - so thank-you.

 

thanks and take care, Kitty

Edited 7 April , 2017 by Kitty55

[Guest]

1 hour ago, horatio2 said:

The Admiralty moved in many and mysterious ways

 

      Their Lordships?  Surely not. Ever.

[seaJane]

 

      Their Lordships?  Surely not. Ever.

Still do...

[nils d]

So how usual would it be to have these w/ops flying?

[horatio2]

Hard to tell for the rating WTOs RNR. The medal roll shows that of the 400 warrant telegraphists RNR, less than ten have a notation that their medals were issued by the Air Ministry. A similarly small number of RNVR rating telegraphists are in the same boat. In short, the answer would appear to "not usual" - a tiny proportion of the overall numbers.

[rolt968]

21 hours ago, horatio2 said:

The Admiralty moved in many and mysterious ways

 

Indeed! On the same page of Kerr of Granville, they point out the Admiralty found that if the staff of the coastal stations were brought into the Navy, they could dispense with the RN officer censors at the stations saving £4500 per year.

 

RM