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egbert

Today 100years ago, this video from the bombardment of Reichsackersko

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egbert

.....was filmed in the Vosges mountain battlegrounds . The video has been posted earlier in the respective thread, but today is a special day for all the men on Reichsackerkopf 100 years ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWKpBFf5Xz0&feature=youtu.be

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trajan

Thanks Egbert,

An interesting mix of French bayonets shown in there - lots of the early pattern Lebels in the trenches while the guards escorting the German officers had yataghan's - probably Gras?

Incredible terrain for a battle... Is the 'cross-roads' visible in many views easily identifiable on the ground today?

Trajan

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Martin Feledziak

Egbert,

Very good quality film when you consider it was shot 100 years ago in a war zone in the mountains.

Of those 800 German prisoners would you happen to know any the unit designations - ?

Martin

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Dragon

As I said when you posted this earlier, this is a most remarkable film. Thank you for sharing it.

To help with visualisation of the location, here's a contemporary postcard. Reichackerkopf is in the centre of the card. The French front line passed above Muhlbach, over Sattel, down through Ampfersbach and Soultzeren (Sulzern) before continuing up in a loop towards Barrenkopf and Hörnleskopf (just off the postcard above Hohrodberg).

post-16-0-34793300-1436955548_thumb.jpg

Egbert, do you know exactly where the photographer was?

Gwyn

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Dragon

Incredible terrain for a battle... Is the 'cross-roads' visible in many views easily identifiable on the ground today?

I think it's difficult to say, because the forests were replanted in the 1930s and there was deliberate destruction of some of the German vestiges. I have walked Reichackerkopf three times but unless you are a very regular walker with detailed knowledge of the locality, there is a lot you just wouldn't see in a forest.

I put a few pics of my own in these threads: Walking Reichackerkopf and Reichackerkopf February 1915. This is Reichackerkopf 100 years on, with the war memorial of Hohrodberg in the foreground.

p1197169469-3.jpg

Gwyn

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Khaki

Very interesting footage, but what are those canteens that the French soldiers are using, starting at about 50 seconds into the film?

khaki

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egbert

Gwyn, do you give it a first shot where the standpoint of the film crew was actually located then?

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Dragon

Very interesting footage, but what are those canteens that the French soldiers are using, starting at about 50 seconds into the film?

khaki

I'm not an expert on uniforms and equipement, but I believe they are gamelles. There are various styles and the designs changed during the course of the war. My limited understanding is those particular ones could be separated and two courses stored.

Edit: Please see post #22 below.

This is about the best I can do without a large search: here and here (the latter not the design seen in the film).

This postcard of mine, sent June 1915, is from the Vosges:

post-16-0-33948800-1436966724_thumb.jpg

There must be someone who knows more than I do.

Gwyn

Edited by Dragon

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Dragon

Gwyn, do you give it a first shot where the standpoint of the film crew was actually located then?

Do you actually know? Am I supposed to guess? ;) I suspect somewhere at height above Metzeral but I'm being no more specific than that.

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egbert

I tend to say, filming was done from 888m altitude Altmattkopf mountain next to Mühlbach.......

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Khaki

I'm not an expert on uniforms and equipement, but I believe they are gamelles. There are various styles and the designs changed during the course of the war.

Gwyn

Thanks Gwyn,

(Gamelles), I had to look it up, but on line services told me that is interpreted as a mess tin which is what I think you mean, what I was referring to was a canteen (liquid) that I saw the enlisted men drinking out of and was being worn on a shoulder strap. its not the double necked variety that I usually see in images.

regards

khaki

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Dragon

I tend to say, filming was done from 888m altitude Altmattkopf mountain next to Mühlbach.......

French position in Altmattkopf but looking towards Metzeral not Reichackerkopf. Which is about where I had in mind by "above Metzeral". I haven't taken photos from Altmattkopf to Reich.

p1253296160-3.jpg

p1253296173-3.jpg

(This one is looking broadly in the direction of Chêne Millet.)

Gwyn

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egbert

I cannot help with the unique canteen pattern, but I found this French canteen-cup in the July 1915 trenchlines on top Reichackerkopf. French savoir vivre

Then 1915

post-80-0-34956300-1436984751_thumb.jpg

Now 2015

post-80-0-09689800-1436984764_thumb.jpg

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egbert

French position in Altmattkopf but looking towards Metzeral not Reichackerkopf. Which is about where I had in mind by "above Metzeral".

p1253296160-3.jpg

So a panning by 90° left would point towards Reichsackerkopf

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Dragon

Yes, approximately. I have gone up through Muhlbach as if I were going to Gaschney, up past Braunkopf, and then parked and walked across fields and through woods to the observation point at Altmattkopf. If I retraced my steps, turned 180° and walked up the mountain I imagine I could look down on towards Sattelkopf, give or take a few pine trees.

Ps You never took a tarte flambée up Reichackerkopf. It would be revolting after a few hours. ;)

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egbert

Ps You never took a tarte flambée up Reichackerkopf. It would be revolting after a few hours. ;)

......The German trenches are full of unsolved enigmas......

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Dragon

I understand from a quick google that there is a part 1 to this film showing the preparations. Is this online? I looked in a couple of places it might have been.

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trajan

I'm not an expert on uniforms and equipement, but I believe they are gamelles. ...

Can't help with the canteen issue, but was intrigued by the second of your links, which presented images of Havresacs - is that the origin of the English term haversack or vice-versa?

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Dragon

According to my etymological dictionary, haversack arrived in English in the 18c, deriving from havresac (French) and habersack (German): the bag in which cavalry carried the oats for their horses. Haber is formed from habaro in Old High German. Hafer is oats in German.

You learn all sorts on this forum at times.

Gwyn

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Dragon

La Chapelle d'Emm, near Metzeral, was rebuilt as a memorial to those who died in the Vosges for the liberation of Alsace.

p887713412-3.jpg

p527926555-4.jpg

Gwyn

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9.5mm

I understand from a quick google that there is a part 1 to this film showing the preparations. Is this online? I looked in a couple of places it might have been.

It does not appear to be on the ecpad website yet (but neither is part II). I'd contact ecpad via email quoting ECPAD. Réf. 14.18 B 313 to see if they can scan the film for you. Alternatively, I'd send a message to the chap who uploaded the film onto YouTube as he might have more information/contacts re: part I.

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CROONAERT

Very interesting footage, but what are those canteens that the French soldiers are using, starting at about 50 seconds into the film?

khaki

They're the Bidons Mle.1884 de cavalerie. Originally intended for cavalry and cyclist use, they were issued to infantry and other arms as an ersatz measure by 1915.

Dave

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Dragon

At last someone who actually knows what he's talking about! :) I know virtually nothing about equipment.

Gwyn

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Dragon

I have scanned some images from L'Illustration, 10 juillet 1915, which broadly show the scene from the position in my post #12. The action took place on 15 juin, about a month before publication.

16h15:

post-16-0-98788700-1437431644_thumb.jpg

16.30h:

post-16-0-62866300-1437431679_thumb.jpg

For comparison, my photo last September taken from Altmattkopf. The village in the valley is Metzeral. Reichackerkopf is some way behind me.

p1253296450-4.jpg

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Dragon

19.5h:

post-16-0-74969200-1437431756_thumb.jpg

Evening:

post-16-0-46211100-1437431803_thumb.jpg

Gwyn

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