Jerry B Posted 14 July , 2015 Share Posted 14 July , 2015 (edited) A recent purchase, hand annotated trench map on tracing paper for the area of the Lys canal and St Floric, dated April 1918 and with locations of mg's, Lewis guns, stokes mortars and 6" Newtons. The location is where Seigfried Sassoon was wounded by one of his own troops a few months later. I assume Roger is the name of the Trench? Edited 30 September , 2019 by Jerry B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mebu Posted 14 July , 2015 Share Posted 14 July , 2015 What a lovely map. I think the defences were much strengthened over the next few months. Don't think Roger is a trench, but the draughtsman. Nice to see the most important part of the battalion area marked.....Barbers. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry B Posted 14 July , 2015 Author Share Posted 14 July , 2015 What a lovely map. I think the defences were much strengthened over the next few months. Don't think Roger is a trench, but the draughtsman. Nice to see the most important part of the battalion area marked.....Barbers. Peter Thanks Peter, I am really pleased with it, the detail up close which perhaps is lost in the images is superb with various hand written annotations etc... . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry B Posted 14 July , 2015 Author Share Posted 14 July , 2015 Another detail this time showing the German front line. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mebu Posted 15 July , 2015 Share Posted 15 July , 2015 yes a very good map. But whoops....I read barber for barrier. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry B Posted 15 July , 2015 Author Share Posted 15 July , 2015 yes a very good map. But whoops....I read barber for barrier. Peter Peter I had noticed but was not going to comment, an easy mistake, shame though as now we don't know where the barbers was! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mebu Posted 16 July , 2015 Share Posted 16 July , 2015 Yes it was a silly mistake spotted when map enlarged. have you found out which battalion here in April?. As I said...lovely map, been to St Floris several times looking for vestiges, nothing from April but several constructions from July/August '18. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry B Posted 16 July , 2015 Author Share Posted 16 July , 2015 I know the A&SH were there early May. http://www.iwmprints.org.uk/image/1100131/brooke-j-w-lt-men-of-the-11th-battalion-argyll-and-sutherland-highlanders-beside-the-lys-canal-near-saint-floris-9-may-1918 another image is dated April 1918 so The map probably is during their stay in the line here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chasemuseum Posted 18 July , 2015 Share Posted 18 July , 2015 An excellent map, frankly its worthy of preparing a support file to keep with it; of contemporary photos of the area at that phase of the war and a visit to the area now to take photos of the features to see how they relate to the original map and how much they have changed. You may be lucky and some points may have had minimal change across a century. Last month I visited the site where a field gun had been captured in 1918 and the location was very much the same and yielded some lovely photos, although regrowth of the woods and 97 autumn leaf falls denied me any more tangible interesting souvenirs. Cheers RT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 18 July , 2015 Share Posted 18 July , 2015 Hi Jerry, The map may possibly show the positions of the 1/9th Royal Scots. The war diary for the 1/8th Argyle and Sutherland Highlanders shows that on 25th April 1918 they were based at St. Floris, and "Battalion holding line E. of St. Floris". The diary goes on to read that at 10.0 pm on 26th April "Battalion relieved by 9th Royal Scots and withdrew to billets in St. Venant" The diary for the 1/9th Royal Scots shows that on 27th April they joined the "line", having moved from St. Venant. The entry for the day reads "Relieved 5th Gordons and 8th A & S.H on the night of 27th/28th B & D in front line A.C in support line". The diary entry for 30th April reads "Battalion was relieved on the night of the 30th after day light by the 5th Gordons and 8th A & SH, and marched to billets outside St. Venant". The diary for the 1/5h Gordon Highlanders groups an entry for "27/30" April, and reads "On the night of 26th/27th the Bn was relieved by 9th Royal Scots and moved back to billets in St. Venant ... On the night of the 30th the Battalion again moved into the front line in the Right Subsector with "C" Coy A & S.H. attached for tactical purposes. ..." There does seem to be a slight discrepancy in the diaries as to when the initially relief took place, and the timeline is tight, but it does seem that when the map was drawn/dated the Royal Scots were responsible for that part of the line. Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mebu Posted 19 July , 2015 Share Posted 19 July , 2015 The battalions mentioned by Chris left their mark....the road along the Reserve line was later known as Argyll Road, and the Support line, Gordon Road, on maps of summer '18. Interesting that the map seems to been drawn by one hand, Roger, (apparently not copied from official map - the grid is correct but roads do not match those of the later printed maps) with later corrections/changes in pencil, probably after handing over to relieving battalion. All from 183 Brigade, 61 Div. Or, the map could have been originally drawn by RE, which would be normal, and annotated by infantry. It was obviously drawn just as the line was settling down after the German offensive, and the troops had been fighting for the previous few weeks. Who was Roger??? As I said before....lovely map. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry B Posted 21 July , 2015 Author Share Posted 21 July , 2015 Thanks Rt, Chirs and Peter for your comments, information and suggestions. I have yet to make a trip to the great war battlefields so perhaps this map can act as a focal point for such a journey along with a visit to Mametz wood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neill Gilhooley Posted 13 October , 2017 Share Posted 13 October , 2017 Roger may well have been Frederick William Paulin MC. In 9RS War Diary he sometimes signs off as "FW Paulin, Capt & A/Adjt, ROGER" and in the war diaries of the brigade we often see messages sent by one of the following to the other three: Rhodes, Roger, Rich and Robert, some of which are signed "ROGER A/Adjt." I guess these might be codenames for the battalion adjutants, and perhaps the brigade staff captain? Paulin was commissioned from Pte in October 1914. https://neillgilhooley.com/9th-royal-scots/index/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neill Gilhooley Posted 20 October , 2017 Share Posted 20 October , 2017 Similar in 5th Gordon Highlanders War Diary... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neill Gilhooley Posted 30 September , 2019 Share Posted 30 September , 2019 On 14/07/2015 at 16:55, Jerry B said: hand annotated trench map on tracing paper for the area of the Lys canal and St Floric, dated April 1918 and with locations of mg's, Lewis guns, stokes mortars and 6" Newtons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry B Posted 30 September , 2019 Author Share Posted 30 September , 2019 32 minutes ago, Neill Gilhooley said: I uploaded the map again as it had vanished Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neill Gilhooley Posted 30 September , 2019 Share Posted 30 September , 2019 Thanks Jerry - a wonderful map. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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