Indian Units in the 3rd Lahore Divisional Area

[ddycher]

All

Anyone know how I can track the Indian units in the Lahore Divisional Area. Got a number of ref's for the British units and am good there but a number of holes in the Indian side.

Any ideas how to progress ?

Regards

Dave

[Steven Broomfield]

Chris kempston's volumes on the Indian Army in the GW might work: I'll have a look later and see what comes up.

[Steven Broomfield]

Yes: had a look through Duty & Fidelity. The Indian Army August 1914-1922, by Chris Kempton, and he organises by Divisions and Brigades.

The 3rd (Lahore) Division seems to have had on the strength in August 1914 the following Divisional Troops:

4th Prince Albert Victor's Rajputs

23rd Sikh Pioneers

20 and 21 Field Companies, 3rd Sappers & Miners

(and 1st Duke of Welington's)

Then the following brigades:

7th (Ferozepore) Brigade:

129th DCO Baluchis

57th Wilde's Rifles

(and 1st Connaught Rangers)

8th (Jullundur) Brigade:

47th Sikhs

59th Scinde Rifles (FF)

1/1st Gurkhas

1/4th Gurkhas

2/4th Gurkhas

(and 2nd West kents)

Note: 15th Lancers (Cureton's Multanis) are listed as "August 1914", but whether on the outbreak is unclear)

9th (Sirhind) Brigade:

34th Sikh Pioneers

(and 4th Rifle Brigade, 2nd Northumberland Fusiliers and 1st HLI).

[ddycher]

Thanks Steven

Very helpful

Regards

Dave.

[MaureenE]

THE ARMY IN INDIA – JULY 1914 by Prof. Charles Tustin Kamps has details.

https://web.archive.org/web/20141012132009/http://www.ordersofbattle.darkscape.net/site/cimh/british%20india/indian_army_1914.pdf

Cheers

Maureen

[ddycher]

_{Thanks Maureen}

_{Will have to wait until next I travel. For some unknown reason archive.org is blocked here in China.}

_Regards

_Dave

[MaureenE]

This is the same article, possibly accessible by you. The original article was on a website called "Orders of Battle" (orbat.com), which as far as I am aware, has not been revived under another name.

http://docz.io/doc/1160554/indian-army-1914---orders-of-battle

Cheers

Maureen

[ddycher]

Maureen

Many thanks. Can you open this ? I can get to the download page but it doesn't connect.

Regards

Dave

[MaureenE]

Yes Dave, I can open both links.

I have coped following some of the information in THE ARMY IN INDIA – JULY 1914 by Prof. Charles Tustin Kamps

3RD LAHORE DIVISION – Lieut-Gen H.B.B. Watkis HQ – Lahore

Division & Area Troops:

Lahore Cantonment:

HQ & half Bn, 1/Duke of Wellington’s (West Riding Regiment)

23rd Sikh Pioneers

Depot, 28th Punjabis 5

HQ 1st Punjab Vol. Rifles AF [minus detachments]

1st Battalion, North Western Railway Vol. Rifles AF 6

23rd Cavalry (FF) 7

Punjab Light Horse AF [minus detachments]

HQ XVIII Brigade RFA; 59 & 94 Btrys RFA

Fort Lahore:

Detachment, 1/Duke of Wellington’s (West Riding Regiment)

Multan Cantonment:

Half Bn, 2/Queen’s Own (Royal West Kent Regiment)

4th Prince Albert Victor’s Rajputs

Depot, 25th Punjabis 8

Detachment, 130th (King George’s Own) Baluchis (Jacob’s Rifles)

37th Lancers (Baluch Horse)

Footnotes

5 28th Punjabis stationed at Colombo, Ceylon.

6 Mans armoured trains on the Northwest Frontier.

7 Attached for training to Ambala Cavalry Brigade.

8 25th Punjabis stationed at Hong Kong.

(next page)

62 Btry RFA [iII Brigade RFA]

86 Heavy Btry RGA

Then follow sections on

Jullundur Brigade

Sirhind Brigade

Ambala Cavalry Brigade

Ferozepore Brigade

If these are relevant for you , I can copy them.

Cheers

Maureen

[ddycher]

Maureen

Thats fantastic.

If you could copy the Bde's I would really appreciate it. The China fire-wall can be a real pain when accessing sites like these.

Thank you very much.

Dave

[MaureenE]

Continuing from above: THE ARMY IN INDIA – JULY 1914 by Prof. Charles Tustin Kamps

Jullundur Brigade – Maj-Gen P.M. Carnegy

Jullundur Cantonment:

Detachment, 1/Manchester Regiment

47th Sikhs

59th Scinde Rifles (FF) [minus detachment]

Detachment, North Western Railway Vol. Rifles AF

15th Lancers (Cureton’s Multanis)

HQ III Brigade RFA; 18 Btry RFA 9

Amritsar Cantonment:

Detachment, 1/Manchester Regiment

Detachment, 59th Scinde Rifles

Bakloh Cantonment:

1/4th Gurkha Rifles

2/4th Gurkha Rifles

Dalhousie Cantonment, Balun:

1/Manchester Regiment [minus detachments]

HQ & half Bn, 2/Queen’s Own (Royal West Kent Regiment)

Half Bn, 1/Connaught Rangers

Dharamsala Cantonment:

1/1st (King George’s Own) Gurkha Rifles (The Malaun Regiment)

Depot, 2/1st (King George’s Own) Gurkha Rifles (The Malaun Regiment) 10

Sirhind Brigade – Maj-Gen J.M.S. Brunker

Ambala Cantonment:

HQ & half Bn, 1/Highland Light Infantry

34th Sikh Pioneers

Detachment, 2nd Battalion, North Western Railway Vol. Rifles AF

East Indian Railway Vol. Rifles AF [minus detachments]

Dagshai Cantonment:

4/Rifle Brigade (Prince Consort’s Own)

Detachment, 2/Northumberland Fusiliers

Jutogh Cantonment:

Detachment, 2/Northumberland Fusiliers

HQ III Mountain Artillery Brigade RGA; 2 & 5 Mountain Btrys RGA 11

Footnotes

9 III Brigade RFA on notice for Woolwich.

10 2/1 Gurkha Rifles stationed with 1st Division at Chitral.

11 5 Mountain Btry on notice for Rawal Pindi.

(next page)

Solan Cantonment:

Half Bn, 1/Highland Light Infantry

Sabathu Cantonment:

2/Northumberland Fusiliers [minus detachments]

Simla:

Detachment, 129th Duke of Connaught’s Own Baluchis

Simla Vol. Rifles AF [minus detachment]

Kalka:

Detachment, East India Railway Vol. Rifles AF

Ambala Cavalry Brigade – Maj-Gen C.P.W. Pirie

Ambala Cantonment:

8th (King’s Royal Irish) Hussars

9th Hodson’s Horse

30th Lancers (Gordon’s Horse)

HQ I Brigade RHA; “A” & “B” Btrys RHA

Ferozepore Brigade – Brig-Gen R.G. Egerton

Ferozepore Cantonment:

HQ & half Bn, 1/Connaught Rangers

57th Wilde’s Rifles (FF)

129th Duke of Connaught’s Own Baluchis [minus detachment]

7th Hariana Lancers 12

93 Btry RFA [XVIII Brigade RFA]

82 Coy. RGA

Footnote

12 Attached for training to Ambala Cavalry Brigade.

Cheers

Maureen

[ddycher]

Maureen

Brilliant.

More in one mail than I've been able to achieve all weekend.

I owe you big time.

Thank you very very much.

Regards

Dave

[Bob Davies]

On 05/07/2015 at 12:53, Maureene said:

Dalhousie Cantonment, Balun:

1/Manchester Regiment [minus detachments]

HQ & half Bn, 2/Queen’s Own (Royal West Kent Regiment)

Half Bn, 1/Connaught Rangers

Thank you for posting these lists Maureene, some years back now but still needed and appreciated. The above quote from July 1914 may help @Cassidy Medals in his search. Regards, Bob.

[MaureenE]

I had forgotten the contents of the above link, so thanks for the reminder.

 

Cheers

Maureen

[Cassidy Medals]

Hi Bob

 

Thank you for following up with Maureene......... and thank you Maureene for the information, greatly appreciated. I'll add the info to my homework list.

 

Over the weekend I went through the MIC and SWB lists and put together a list of J. Cassidy's of interest. From memory there are about 34 soldiers.

 

I have found quite a few service records so far. Interestingly a number of the men had served in India, but were either in country before 1903 or had not attained the rank of CPL whilst in India. Most went on to serve during WW1.   

 

I found one soldier who had served in the Sudan in 1898 then the Boer War and finally WW1.....but he never served in India. (bummer)

Another soldier served in India and WW1 then went to Russia where he was shot and killed by a Russian Policeman in Nov 1919.

I have also located a photo of a SGT Cassidy in the Manchester Regiment circa 1926, he is wearing a WW1 Trio ribbon bar on his tunic. I am yet to research him, but i will in time.

 

I was hopeful that I would happen across a soldier who fitted the bill, but it hasn't happened yet.......I feel that he's there somewhere I've just got to keep looking till I find him.

I have found most of the service records complete with details that I am looking for such as dates of promotions to LCPL and CPL and locations that they served in, which is great.

 

So the search continues.

I'll provide another update soon.

 

Cheers

Gaz

    

 

[Guest]

On 29/06/2020 at 15:48, Maureene said:

I had forgotten the contents of the above link, so thanks for the reminder.

 

Cheers

Maureen

Hi Maureen,

 

Not Lahore related but hoping to tap into your extensive knowledge of Indian units.

 

Do you know if any literature exists about the 1/5th Bn Gurkha Rifles, 29th Indian Infantry Brigade during their stay at the Anzac theatre of operations?  According to its WD, a detachment was sent to Anzac during October 1915, to act as a beach party.  I just wanted to identify their location / dugouts.

 

Regards,

 

Jay.

Edited 17 October , 2020 by Guest

[MaureenE]

The late Martin Gillott (sadly only recently died, see a current GWF topic  https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/285457-qgemarting/ ) transcribed a number of War Diaries, including that for the  1/5th Gurkha Rifles (Frontier Force) 1915,  which are available for a modest cost on Kindle. Download of a free Kindle App is available onto a PC, Mac or tablet - you don't need Kindle.

 

See the FIBIS Fibiwiki page Gallipoli, section War Diaries,  including footnotes, for details

 

https://wiki.fibis.org/w/Gallipoli#War_Diaries

 

There are also some War Diaries on Ancestry, but could be handwritten.

 

If this is the WD you are referring to in your post above,  so that you already have this information, sorry I can't offer any further source, other than perhaps the 2015 book  (which I haven't read myself)

“Die in Battle, Do Not Despair – The Indians on Gallipoli, 1915” by  Professor Peter Stanley

https://www.helion.co.uk/military-history-books/die-in-battle-do-not-despair-the-indians-on-gallipoli-1915.php

Cheers

Maureen

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Maureene said:

 

If this is the WD you are referring to in your post above,  so that you already have this information, sorry I can't offer any further source, other than perhaps the 2015 book  (which I haven't read myself)

“Die in Battle, Do Not Despair – The Indians on Gallipoli, 1915” by  Professor Peter Stanley

https://www.helion.co.uk/military-history-books/die-in-battle-do-not-despair-the-indians-on-gallipoli-1915.php

Cheers

Maureen

Thanks.  Yes, I was able to peruse the unit's WD in ancestry.   Just wanted to see if anything further had been fleshed out about their stint at Gallipoli.  You've provided one potential source.

 

Ciao.