ForeignGong Posted 28 June , 2015 Share Posted 28 June , 2015 HI http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Great-War-Pair-of-Medals-to-316223-Pte-J-H-Williams-DEVON-REGIMENT-/131545457840?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item1ea0b864b0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beechhill Posted 28 June , 2015 Share Posted 28 June , 2015 Clearly an error, since he also has these (I assume comparable) for sale at a slightly more moderate price. http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/131539570168?nav=SEARCH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeignGong Posted 28 June , 2015 Author Share Posted 28 June , 2015 Yes I think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beechhill Posted 28 June , 2015 Share Posted 28 June , 2015 Even so not being a collector is a considerable relief to my pub allowance :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 28 June , 2015 Share Posted 28 June , 2015 Clearly an error, since he also has these (I assume comparable) for sale at a slightly more moderate price. http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/131539570168?nav=SEARCH Looks like the silver one went the way many are said to have done... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsyeoman Posted 28 June , 2015 Share Posted 28 June , 2015 The price has been adjusted to a less head-scratching £49.99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWF1967 Posted 28 June , 2015 Share Posted 28 June , 2015 The price has been adjusted to a less head-scratching £49.99 I was slightly confused as the link shows the adjusted price. I have seen some truly incredible prices asked for WW1 items, mostly accompanied by claims of "Rare" or similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry B Posted 29 June , 2015 Share Posted 29 June , 2015 Looks like the silver one went the way many are said to have done... Probably, but strange how many of the silver BWM you see for sale on their own. Perhaps they got split off for scrapping but the price never quite got high enough for them to be melted down. I have 6 BWM's, 7 VM's and 7 star's on their own, and a pair from a star trio missing the Vm and one missing the BWM. Thankfully there are many reasons why trio's and pair's were split apart for reasons other than for scraping, though I know that sadly far too many were melted down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 29 June , 2015 Share Posted 29 June , 2015 Or a very clever way to get people looking at what you are selling... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeignGong Posted 30 June , 2015 Author Share Posted 30 June , 2015 I am not connected in any way to the said medals or seller. Just £49,990.00 for a WW1 pair was a little over the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medaler Posted 30 June , 2015 Share Posted 30 June , 2015 Looks like the silver one went the way many are said to have done... Left to another of his children? - I reckon that is why most groups were split - and it still goes on now. There are also those wonderful sellers on ebuy that positively insist on selling a trio in 3 separate listings. If that is the case, then I will never bid on them, no matter how much I would like to own them. I also remember one seller who insisted that "GNR" was the abbreviation for General, despite there being a service number at one end of the inscription and "RA" at the other. Should this response have gone on the "rant" thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 30 June , 2015 Share Posted 30 June , 2015 Left to another of his children? - I reckon that is why most groups were split - and it still goes on now. There are also those wonderful sellers on ebuy that positively insist on selling a trio in 3 separate listings. If that is the case, then I will never bid on them, no matter how much I would like to own them. Good point there. And as for those who split groups, well, even though I am not a medal collector, a curse on their house... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medaler Posted 30 June , 2015 Share Posted 30 June , 2015 Good point there. And as for those who split groups, well, even though I am not a medal collector, a curse on their house... It is never too late to start you know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 30 June , 2015 Share Posted 30 June , 2015 It is never too late to start you know! OK, I'll take the bait with a quick question that displays my total ignorance on this subject... Which regiment / service number was impressed on the edge of the Squeak and Wilfred - the final one )on discharge) or the initial one (on call-up)? EG, a man starts with the Herefs. and finishes with the Tank Corps, two different regiments, two different service numbers, but which would be on the medals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 30 June , 2015 Share Posted 30 June , 2015 On 01/07/2015 at 01:05, TRAJAN said: OK, I'll take the bait with a quick question that displays my total ignorance on this subject... Which regiment / service number was impressed on the edge of the Squeak and Wilfred - the final one )on discharge) or the initial one (on call-up)? EG, a man starts with the Herefs. and finishes with the Tank Corps, two different regiments, two different service numbers, but which would be on the medals? Have a look at: In theory it's simple, the reality can be clear as mud sometimes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medaler Posted 30 June , 2015 Share Posted 30 June , 2015 OK, I'll take the bait with a quick question that displays my total ignorance on this subject... Which regiment / service number was impressed on the edge of the Squeak and Wilfred - the final one )on discharge) or the initial one (on call-up)? EG, a man starts with the Herefs. and finishes with the Tank Corps, two different regiments, two different service numbers, but which would be on the medals? Well, as Andrew has pointed out - it ain't easy. On the bright side, as a collector, you don't usually have to know, because you will be looking at the one in your hand! - From there, just go to the MIC and the Rolls. The thing you would be better advised to study is the various styles of naming that they used, so you can spot the duds. Admittedly, there are not many duds but, now some of the more "common" medals are becoming worth serious sums of money, you can expect to see more and more of them. To give one answer to your question, I have a pair to a Forester that ended up in the Tank Corps - and his are named to his Forester persona. If they had been named to Tank Corps they would almost certainly have commanded a higher price, but the association is still there via the medal rolls. One thing I am 99.9% certain about is that the service number on the medal will reflect the unit on the medal. If he was 12345 in the Herefords and 98765 in the Tank Corps the medal will NOT be named 12345 Tank Corps or 98765 Notts & Derby (Foresters). Having said that, somebody will probably now find me one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 1 July , 2015 Share Posted 1 July , 2015 On 01/07/2015 at 01:17, Andrew Upton said: Have a look at: In theory it's simple, the reality can be clear as mud sometimes... On 01/07/2015 at 03:12, Medaler said: Well, as Andrew has pointed out - it ain't easy. On the bright side, as a collector, you don't usually have to know, because you will be looking at the one in your hand! Thanks both! Ok, so I think I get it... So, the chap I am interested in (half-interested in trying to track down his medals), having done his overseas service with the Herefordshire Regiment, but then home service (training) with the Tank Corps, would most likely / probably / certainly have his medals impressed with the Herefordshire Regiment and his service number on them...??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 1 July , 2015 Share Posted 1 July , 2015 Thanks both! Ok, so I think I get it... So, the chap I am interested in (half-interested in trying to track down his medals), having done his overseas service with the Herefordshire Regiment, but then home service (training) with the Tank Corps, would most likely / probably / certainly have his medals impressed with the Herefordshire Regiment and his service number on them...??? Correct - in fact the only difference (in theory) any later service in a different regiment would make to how the BWM and VM were inscribed would be if he held a higher rank with them overseas in a theatre of war. In which case you can end up with the higher rank from that completely different regiment inscribed along details of his earlier regiment. Confusing, eh... I've always been suprised they never just adopted the process of inscribing them ALL with number/rank/regiment held on first disembarkation in a theatre of war. And that's not even allowing for the fact that it was humans set up the stamping machines, so various errors and mistakes creep in through that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medaler Posted 1 July , 2015 Share Posted 1 July , 2015 Trajan, The man you are after is even easier than that. Only "qualifying" service should appear on the medal, medal index card, and medal roll. If he never left Blighty with the tank corps that did not count as "qualifying" service, which had to be undertaken in a theatre of war. I do however know of certain types of exceptions to this. I have a medal to a Forester with a "13" Prefix, and to several men in other units with a "3" Prefix. All these refer to reserve / training battalions that never served overseas. For some reason, when these men left their training units to serve in a theatre of war, their prefix somehow stayed with them. I am in particular convinced that my "13" prefix Forester medal is exceedingly rare and worth more than a VC - but I seem to be the only bloke that thinks that way! Medals with that "3" prefix, by way of contrast, are fairly common. The very presence of that prefix however is darned useful as it nails his training unit where service documents have failed to survive. If you let me have your man's surname and Hereford No I will transcribe the roll and MIC information for you. Cheers, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 1 July , 2015 Share Posted 1 July , 2015 Correct - ... ...If you let me have your man's surname and Hereford No I will transcribe the roll and MIC information for you. Many thanks again both! As I indicated, I am thinking of searching on the medal forums for granddad's two, but to do that needed to know how they would be impressed. I have a copy of his service record and his Medal Rolls Index Card, but FYI, he's Thomas Murphy, Herefords 237349, and he seems to have sent most of his service in Egypt in hospital in Alexandria suffering from a self-inflicted wound contracted from a - shall we say - femme fatale in Blighty before shipping out... Not quite the heroic veteran but the only one from either side of the family who was of the right age for service in WW1! Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medaler Posted 1 July , 2015 Share Posted 1 July , 2015 He is on the roll for the Tank Corps. "317956 Pte Thomas Murphy, Previous Service with 1st/1st Hereford Regt, 237349 Pte" - Presumably he is on their roll because they had custody of him when the shooting stopped. The numbers either side of his on the roll show men with previous service in different regiments (KSLI and Royal Sussex), so he may well have transferred on his own from 1st/1st H'fd. Had a look at his MIC - Doesn't give much away does it? - interesting that his Tank Corps number is on it if he never served overseas with them. Occasionally the MIC's are marked to show the man operating the press which naming details to add, but I notice his is not. You man's gong's should however be named to his Hereford persona. As for his service record - well, I have ascertained that 2 of my family donned Khaki during the Great War. One of them was invalided out with a bad neck and never went overseas, the other was in the ASC, finished as a serjeant, but also never served overseas. Nearest he ever got was the seaside on the south coast, so not even the Alexandra Palace, let alone Alexandria! Cheers, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry B Posted 1 July , 2015 Share Posted 1 July , 2015 I am not connected in any way to the said medals or seller. Just £49,990.00 for a WW1 pair was a little over the top. In this case yes, but it depends on the recipients service and if he had other medals or was KIA on an important date, such as today, also rank and the unit with which he served, as some are more expensive than others. Also I reunited a split pair to the Monmouthshire Regiment, which under normal circumstances are more expensive than some and reuniting it mean't I had to pay an even higher price for one of them which was pushed up by a dealer. He was a Cpl and also saw service with 5th South Wales Bords as an Acting Quarter master Sjt and later still with the RWF. Both his medals are named to him as Mons Reg, which perhaps answers another question asked earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 20 July , 2015 Share Posted 20 July , 2015 He is on the roll for the Tank Corps. "317956 Pte Thomas Murphy, Previous Service with 1st/1st Hereford Regt, 237349 Pte" - Presumably he is on their roll because they had custody of him when the shooting stopped. The numbers either side of his on the roll show men with previous service in different regiments (KSLI and Royal Sussex), so he may well have transferred on his own from 1st/1st H'fd. Had a look at his MIC - Doesn't give much away does it? - interesting that his Tank Corps number is on it if he never served overseas with them. Occasionally the MIC's are marked to show the man operating the press which naming details to add, but I notice his is not. You man's gong's should however be named to his Hereford persona. As for his service record - well, I have ascertained that 2 of my family donned Khaki during the Great War. One of them was invalided out with a bad neck and never went overseas, the other was in the ASC, finished as a serjeant, but also never served overseas. Nearest he ever got was the seaside on the south coast, so not even the Alexandra Palace, let alone Alexandria! Cheers, Mike Belated thanks there Mike - although the number is 317952... I have been getting back on G/dad's trail, and rather than start a new thread thought I'd post up here a bit of paper relevant to him, a note from his file on his medals that I am having problems understanding... I have a copy of the post card by which G/dad applied for his medals (from the Tank Corps!) on 21/08/19, a date which fits in (more or less) with when he left the services. Now, to the note I am having problems with... I can read most of the first bit, number, name, initial, but can't get the next bit, except for the date, 14/01/19 which is before he applied for his medals, which was on 21/08/19, but a date which fits in (more or less) with when he left the services. The second bit I don't get, except it is something about medals, and a ?date - 27/09/19? Presumably the date his application (sent on 21/08/19) was certified / received? But this third bit... G/dad's wife was S.J.Murphy - so who is this 'Mrs Russel? She could, of course, be his, ahem, "landlady" (G/dad and G/ma had a tumultuous relationship...)... And the dates, '7/2/20', and '9/2/20' - packed and sent? But what is this written beneath - seems to be something about medals? Might these be returned medals? All help greatly appreciated! Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medaler Posted 20 July , 2015 Share Posted 20 July , 2015 Hi Julian, Firstly, my sincere apologies for getting that number wrong - DOH! I do strive to be accurate, it is just not always easy to tell I must also admit that I am also struggling with that document. One thing though, as a non-commissioned man, he did not have to apply for them, they were set automatically. Mrs Russell - Wife's maiden name? - ie sent to his mother-in-law? The date 14/01/19 (or maybe 04/01/19?) - could that be the date he was demobilised / discharged? - looks likely to me. The 07/02/20 - 09/02/20 - perhaps the dates that they were sent and the receipt slip returned to the medal office? - The Post Office was indeed that good in those days! The date below - that looks like 29/05/20 under magnification, just seems annotated with the word "medals" - or something like "c/medals". As to what that means, I would not like to say! I hope some of that proves useful. Warmest regards, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 20 July , 2015 Share Posted 20 July , 2015 Hi Julian ... I must also admit that I am also struggling with that document. One thing though, as a non-commissioned man, he did not have to apply for them, they were set automatically. ... Mrs Russell - Wife's maiden name? - ie sent to his mother-in-law? ... The date below - that looks like 29/05/20 under magnification, just seems annotated with the word "medals" - or something like "c/medals". As to what that means, I would not like to say! I hope some of that proves useful. Thanks Mike! Certainly all useful! So, no hint in that note that the medals were returned... But, did those postcards - the one he sent to the 'Tank Corps' 'applying' for his medals - have the return address on the other side? I though I had copied everything from Ancestry a couple of years back but I can't seem to find the other side - just this one... As for that Mrs Russel, well, not the name of any relatives that I know off, and certainly not his ma-in-law - she was a Kaywood. From what I have heard of G/dad, I suspect she was probably a 'good friend' - say no more! I can't find his MIC - I though I had downloaded that - but I don't think it had 'Medals returned' on it, and so they probably did get sent. Many thanks again for your help, Best wishes, Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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