ddycher Posted 24 June , 2015 Share Posted 24 June , 2015 All Does anyone have any details of the Indian Schools of Musketry at "Packmahbi", Changla Gali and Sataba ? Regards Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon_Fielding Posted 24 June , 2015 Share Posted 24 June , 2015 Pachmarhi! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaureenE Posted 24 June , 2015 Share Posted 24 June , 2015 Changla Gali was small cantonment in the hills between Murree and Abbottabad, now Pakistan http://dsal.uchicago.edu/reference/gazetteer/pager.html?objectid=DS405.1.I34_V10_179.gif Sataba is an incorrect transcription and should be Satara ( http://wiki.fibis.org/index.php/Satara ) Google Books reference https://books.google.com.au/books?id=fIO-BAAAQBAJ&lpg=PA303&ots=1jA0RCwgD4&dq=School%20of%20Musketry%20Satara&pg=PA303 There were also Musketry Schools at Bellary and Secunderabad, and a Machine Gun School at Campbellpur, now called Attock, Pakistan. There was a Machine Gun School at Ahmednagar established c 1922, in conjunction with the Royal Tank Corps School, Ahmednagar Cheers Maureen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddycher Posted 26 June , 2015 Author Share Posted 26 June , 2015 Both Many thanks for this. Am trying to trace which School of Musketry men from the Punjab would have attended. Any ideas ? Regards Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddycher Posted 26 June , 2015 Author Share Posted 26 June , 2015 Found it. In 1915 TF troops were allocated to the 1st regular Musketry Courses at Satara. Extra courses were laid on at Satara, Pachmarhi and Rawalpindi in January and April Regards Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaureenE Posted 27 June , 2015 Share Posted 27 June , 2015 I suspect that the courses at Changla Gali and Rawalpindi were connected, or possibly even the same location, as they are situated in the same general area. Quite possibly Changla Gail was the summer location (it was situated in the hills where it was cooler- in winter there would be snow) and Rawalpindi the winter location. Cheers Maureen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddycher Posted 27 June , 2015 Author Share Posted 27 June , 2015 Thanks Maureen. Had not made that connection. Will look into it further. Regards Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddycher Posted 27 June , 2015 Author Share Posted 27 June , 2015 All Spent a fascinating day plotting the training of the TF battalions after their arrival in India. Particularly wrt musketry. What got me started on this was some damning comments I read on the lack of basic musketry skills in the TF units arriving in India. This was bad enough for Aylmer the then AG to insist that all newly arrived TF men were to run through the Elementary Course in musketry irrespective of how long men had been in the TF or their previous efficiency certificates. Any one seen similar derogatory comments on arriving TF Bn's before ? Regards Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddycher Posted 28 June , 2015 Author Share Posted 28 June , 2015 Maureen You are correct Indian Army List of 1919 confirms that Pachmarhi was the Central School and there were Branch Schools at Satara and Rawalpindi - Changla Gali. Thanks for helping make the connection. Tidies things up a bit. Regards Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tejpal Posted 21 March , 2018 Share Posted 21 March , 2018 Just to bump this thread.... As per the Indian Army List, what did (56) "musketry certificate (Indian ranks)" entail exactly? Was it a prerequisite for promotion to the officer ranks? How did this differ from (54) "passed musketry course for volunteer officers"? Many thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaureenE Posted 23 March , 2018 Share Posted 23 March , 2018 "Volunteer Officers" were Officers of Volunteer Regiments, later called auxiliary regiments, which were part time Regiments, whose officers and soldiers were British or Anglo Indian (also called Eurasian). See the FIBIS Fibiwiki page Auxiliary Regiments https://wiki.fibis.org/w/Auxiliary_Regiments I do not know how the courses differed, but I expect there would be a difference in a course offered to a full time Indian ranks soldier, (a sepoy) and a part time British Officer. I think the Indian other tanks who eventually became officers were regarded as elite soldiers, so perhaps they would be expected to hold a musketry certificate, but I do not know if this was a requirement. Cheers Maureen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tejpal Posted 4 November , 2019 Share Posted 4 November , 2019 Thank you Maureene. Have you seen any certificate's entitled "Musketry Certificate (Indian Ranks)"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaureenE Posted 5 November , 2019 Share Posted 5 November , 2019 Tejpal, No, I haven't. Cheers Maureen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tejpal Posted 5 November , 2019 Share Posted 5 November , 2019 Thank you Maureene. I have been looking online but I haven't seen any either, which is a shame. I came across some files on the National Archives of India regarding musketry, dated 1897-98. According to the files I found, regiments based in Punjab underwent instruction in mustketry in Changla Gali. This includes VCO's from the 23rd, 32nd and 34th Punjab (later Sikh) Pioneers. Furthermore, regiments of the former Bengal Presidency underwent instruction in mustketry in Pachmarhi. Likewise, regiments of the former Bombay Presidency underwent instruction in mustketry in Deolali. The photos above show Capt. Christie and Capt. Gabbett, from the 32nd and 23rd Sikh Pioneers respectively, at Pachmarhi, when I would have assumed they would have been based in Changla Gali based on files I have seen. If you had any thoughts on that, I'd appreciate it very much. ( I wasn't sure if I was permitted to upload the aforementioned files here's). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaureenE Posted 6 November , 2019 Share Posted 6 November , 2019 The officers in the photograph above at Pachmarhi, were British Officers. British Officers were the senior officers in a regiment I would simply take the course at Pachmarhi as a gathering of senior staff, whereas the others in the regiment would attend courses more locally . When I was working (nothing to do with the Army) senior staff frequently had different training courses in different locations to the rest of the staff. Cheers Maureen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tejpal Posted 7 November , 2019 Share Posted 7 November , 2019 Thank you Maureene, that makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Talbot Posted 8 February , 2022 Share Posted 8 February , 2022 My cousin Major Valentine Douglas Lynch Talbot, Royal Hampshire Regiment, commanded a musketry school in North West India between the two world wars. My father was one of the students in the 1930s, Does anyone know which school Major VDL Talbot commanded? Col (Ret'd) Richard Talbot Vancouver Island Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 8 February , 2022 Share Posted 8 February , 2022 (edited) 50 minutes ago, Richard Talbot said: My cousin Major Valentine Douglas Lynch Talbot, Royal Hampshire Regiment, commanded a musketry school in North West India between the two world wars. My father was one of the students in the 1930s, Does anyone know which school Major VDL Talbot commanded? Col (Ret'd) Richard Talbot Vancouver Island Welcome to the Forum. To keep inside the Forum's remit we need to see if he had WW1 service. When was he born? I see newspaper refs to a Captain VDL Talbot of the Hampshire Regiment who was Adjutant of the Small Arms School at Hythe 1936-1939. Just prior to this I think he was in India with 1st Bn and was its Adjutant in 1934. Charlie Edited 8 February , 2022 by charlie962 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 8 February , 2022 Share Posted 8 February , 2022 I suspect he was a post war commission? There is an interesting new resource, the Army Museums Ogilby Trust, who have just started coordinating the release of archives held by individual regimental museums. The Hampshire Regiment are participating. Already they have copied the Record of the 1st Bn Hampshire Regiment and I see in December 1922 2nd Lt VDL Talbot joined the Bn. If you are a dab-hand at computers, you can advance a page at a time by advancing the URL number at the top of your screen by one digit at a time ( ie the number 755297 in the link below). You may come across something helpful? Here is the first page on which VDL Talbot appears: https://www.theogilbymuster.com/record/755297 Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 8 February , 2022 Share Posted 8 February , 2022 (edited) As a Lieutenant he was an Instructor at the Small Arms School at Pachmarhi in 1931. You will find it via the link I gave. Edited 8 February , 2022 by charlie962 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaureenE Posted 8 February , 2022 Share Posted 8 February , 2022 charlie962 may have given you the information you require. Generally there is information about the various Army schools such as Small Arms in the Indian Army Lists See the FIBIS Fibiwiki page Indian Army List online https://wiki.fibis.org/w/Indian_Army_List_online Maureen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Talbot Posted 9 February , 2022 Share Posted 9 February , 2022 6 hours ago, charlie962 said: Welcome to the Forum. To keep inside the Forum's remit we need to see if he had WW1 service. When was he born? I see newspaper refs to a Captain VDL Talbot of the Hampshire Regiment who was Adjutant of the Small Arms School at Hythe 1936-1939. Just prior to this I think he was in India with 1st Bn and was its Adjutant in 1934. Charlie Many thanks. Very helpful. He was born 1902 so outside the remit Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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