Julius Regensteiner, 5 Komp, Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 113 ICRC Help&#33

[ph0ebus]

Hi all,

I am in the process of researching a relation of mine who went missing during the war. His name was Julius Regensteiner, born 27 Jan 1897 in Laupheim, Tübingen, Baden-Württemberg, Germany. He was an Unteroffizier attached to the 5 Kompagnie, Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 113, when he went missing. His entry in the Vermisstenliste can be found here:

http://des.genealogy.net/search/show/9814518

Following a hunch I checked the ICRC database and found five cards for him! Can someone have a look at these and confirm my understanding of what these records are saying? My interpretation follows the photos below. Here's one card:

Another card:

This third card has the reference number R.ab 96:

Following that reference number I find an entry in a written inquiry to Geneva that says (and I am condensing here):

"Nous ne avons pas de fiches au nom de XO438 Regensteiner Julius 113e Inf.5e. cie" - there is also a handwritten notation beside it that says 'fait 5.11.15".

Can I conclude from this that while Julius' family made several inquiries, the Red Cross had no records of him, suggesting he was killed in action near Souain on or about September 22nd (per ICRC card) or 25th (vermisstenliste) 1915 and has no known grave? His entry in the weltkriegsopfer database:

http://www.weltkriegsopfer.de/Kriegsopfer-Julius-Regensteiner_Soldaten_0_468638.html

Any guidance would be greatly appreciated, as always.

-Daniel

[JWK]

First card reads:

Regensteiner, Julius

UnterOffizier in IR113 5th coy

"Disparu" Vanished near Souain-Perthes in the Champagne region

Enquiry came from the Red Cross Association in Frankfurt am Main

2nd card spells out in detail his army-details, and the contactperson is a Herr Dokter A Cohn, a Rabbi in Basel

"Nous ne avons pas de fiches au nom de XO438 Regensteiner Julius 113e Inf.5e. cie" = "We don't have any indexcards in the name of Regensteiner Julius"

If I understand it correctly the Red Cross replies to the query with "We have no record of him"

In other words : the English/French/Belgians etc did not report to us that they've got him.

Which then leads to the sad conclusion that Julius is indeed "disparu".....

Also : "pas a connu" at the bottom of the first two cards : "nothing is known"

[johnboy]

Sounds like a MIA with no known grave?

[johnboy]

A google of his name brings up some info but I don't have membership of the sites.

[johnboy]

This looks the most likely

http://www.geni.com/people/Julius-Regensteiner/6000000019481870828

[JWK]

There is this, from findagrave.com , a memorial with his name in Laupheim (Don't know why findagrave thinks that's in Stuttgart though... As my grandmother would say "try and walk the distance!" And Freiburg is even further away...)

which confirms johnboy's geni.com link (Only this Julius was born 1897 "in Freiburg", the Geni one was born 1899 "in Laupheim". Same parents though)

[johnboy]

I didn't bother to mention the 2 year dates of births as the day and month were the same and the address is the same as theOP.

[ph0ebus]

Yes, you both have the right man. Interestingly I do not see his name on the memorial there:

The last fellow on the memorial is family to me as well. I discovered him today as well and will be starting his own thread shortly.

-Daniel

[JWK]

And then (from the geni.com link) there's Max Regensteiner, his brother, severely wounded, on the 17-09-1915 list (IR 170):

http://des.genealogy.net/search/show/2817322

According to Geni.com he survived the war, and died in 1965 in the USA

[ph0ebus]

IR 113 was a part of the 29th Division; I find the following snippet about their activities during the period in which he went missing in 'Histories":

[ph0ebus]

The Germans report his date of disappearance as 25th of September, rather than the 22nd and this is quite an important thing to note: the Second Battle of Champagne, which IR 113 was a part of, started on September 25th.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Battle_of_Champagne

-Daniel

[ph0ebus]

And then (from the geni.com link) there's Max Regensteiner, his brother, severely wounded, on the 17-09-1915 list (IR 170):

http://des.genealogy.net/search/show/2817322

According to Geni.com he survived the war, and died in 1965 in the USA

Yes, I just learned about him today as well; he was with 10 Kompagnie, Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 170.

[johnboy]

Were his parents/family buried in the cemetery? If so, maybe his name is on a family headstone?

[ph0ebus]

Were his parents/family buried in the cemetery? If so, maybe his name is on a family headstone?

Certainly a possibility; digging into that now. This page makes for some interesting additional reading:

http://www.alemannia-judaica.de/laupheim_friedhof.htm

[johnboy]

It probably does but google translator seems unable.

[ph0ebus]

Given Max survived the War, he may have been in attendance at this event, which must have been bittersweet:

Rough translation:

Special service to honor the soldiers who returned from the war (1919 )
Article in the " Allgemeine Zeitung of Judaism " of 7 February 1919: " From Laupheim ( Württemberg ) is written to honor the homecoming warrior festival service also took place in the local richly decorated synagogue held with the participation of the whole community the same time, the Honor Shield with Star of David was nailed to the wall and inaugurated . The two Chebroth had donated a nail for every combatants and entered his name to eternal memory . Almost a hundred of our parishioners were in the field and are largely returned with honorable awards . "

[JWK]

Daniel,

can you put up a picture of that memorial, and of the memorial service, please? All I get is the .jpg extension

Also: the alemannia link doesn't work for me.

JW

[ph0ebus]

I found a photo of Julius!!!

[ph0ebus]

Daniel,

can you put up a picture of that memorial, and of the memorial service, please? All I get is the .jpg extension

Also: the alemannia link doesn't work for me.

JW

Hi JW,

Strange, they show up for me. I'll try again. The memorial:

The article about the memorial service:

A third man listed on the memorial, Heinrich Steiner, is also a relation!

[AOK4]

Hello,

The Ehrentafel of IR 113 gives the following information:Unteroffizier Julius Regensteiner, Freiburg i. Br., vermißt 25.9.1915 Souain.

Regards,

Jan

[ph0ebus]

Hello,

The Ehrentafel of IR 113 gives the following information:Unteroffizier Julius Regensteiner, Freiburg i. Br., vermißt 25.9.1915 Souain.

Regards,

Jan

This date lines up with the entry for him in the vermisstenlist, so I think perhaps it is safe to assume that in the absence of evidence to the contrary, Julius did fall in the Second Battle of Champagne. I will continue to research him and should I find any additional details I will certainly add them here.

Thanks again, everyone!

-Daniel

[SiegeGunner]

I think you'll find, Dan, that the Ehrenschild was actually decorated or picked out in nails (not 'nailed to the wall'). See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nail_Men

'Vollständig benagelt' means 'fully nailed', ie. containing all the nails needed to complete the design.

[ph0ebus]

I think you'll find, Dan, that the Ehrenschild was actually decorated or picked out in nails (not 'nailed to the wall'). See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nail_Men

'Vollständig benagelt' means 'fully nailed', ie. containing all the nails needed to complete the design.

Thank you, Mick! I was trying to make some sense of the horrid Google translation, and that was what I came up with.

-Daniel

[AliceF]

Hi,

Not sure if you figured it out already, but according to several links Julius Regensteiner’s name was added to the memorial first in 1998.

http://www.ggg-laupheim.de/Berichte%20von%20Mitgl/Judische%20Soldaten/Juedische%20Soldaten.htm:

„Hier waren bis zum Jahr 1998 acht Namen auf der eingelassenen Bronzetafel genannt. Erst jüngst, 76 Jahre nach der Errichtung, erfolgte eine Ergänzung mit dem Namen des erst achtzehn- jährigen Unteroffiziers Julius Regensteiner, der am 25. September 1915 bei SIe. Marie ä Py in Frank reich gefallen ist.“

And here:

http://steinheim-institut.de:50580/cgi-bin/epidat?sel=lau&function=Ins&inv=9000

Christine

[ph0ebus]

Hi Christine,

Subsequent to my earlier posts I did note that and would love to know what the source is for that information. Perhaps if there is a unit history there will be some additional information.

-Daniel