Inland Water Transport Royal Engineers

[Sniper]

57 minutes ago, mbriscoe said:

I have looked at the RE IWT previously because of my interest in the Northern Barrage and its use of the Caledonian Canal.  One member of of the RE IWT is buried in Corpach (I have tried hard to find anyone related to him but no luck).  Another died at Laggan Locks, I was able to find relatives and give them details of where he died.

 

I think they operate the canal locks, the USN seemed to use lighters for moving the mines through the canal (there are some photographs on the National Archive).

 

I am a Remote Volunteer for the IWM WMR and occasionally notice a member of the RE IWM on a memorial .  But just transcribing St Ives Wesleyan Church Roll Of Honour and seeing several RE IWT, only a handful but more than I would usually expect.  Wondering why?

 

 

Unfortunately, I can no longer get to the National Archive as I find the whole subject of the Inland Waterways Division fascinating.

 

Do mean St. Ives, Cornwall, or St. Ives, Cambridgeshire?

 

Both locations would, I think, have had a relatively large number of seamen/watermen working the fishing smacks and the natrowboats.

 

Other than that, I'm afraid I have no answer to your query.

[mbriscoe]

48 minutes ago, Sniper said:

Unfortunately, I can no longer get to the National Archive as I find the whole subject of the Inland Waterways Division fascinating.

 

Do mean St. Ives, Cornwall, or St. Ives, Cambridgeshire?

 

Both locations would, I think, have had a relatively large number of seamen/watermen working the fishing smacks and the natrowboats.

 

Other than that, I'm afraid I have no answer to your query.

 

I had not looked at which St Ives but the DCLI appears often so must be Cornwall (will check shortly and correct if I am wrong)

 

Also people in the RN Patrol Service (again not large numbers but more than you might normally expect.

 

P.S.

 

Also note that I should have written that I was referring to "National Archives" (i.e. Transpondian) and not "The National Archive")

 

 

Edited 1 February , 2021 by mbriscoe

[mbriscoe]

https://catalog.archives.gov/search?q=caledonian%20canal

 

[kenf48]

St Ives, Cornwall town memorial lists just two soldiers form RE (IWT) who died in service.

Eli Curnow

and John Pearce, the latter's service records survive and there is a very sad letter concerning his death from peronitis following an operation to remove his appendix.

http://www.roll-of-honour.com/Cornwall/StIves.html

 

The list is by no means complete and no doubt would welcome any updates you may have.  Pearce was a fisherman and Curnow originally enlisted in the DCLI. It would not be unusual for men with seafaring experience or boat handling skills to end up in the RE IWT (a bit of a misnomer as their title was Inland Waterways and Docks) both men above were buried at ports, Calais and Dunkirk respectively.

 

In my experience the Wesleyans were usually keen to list all those who served.

[Blue Dragoon]

Harry Meaden born 1893/94 Tilshead drowned at Dunkirk 27 Jan 1918

 

[mbriscoe]

I sent the picture of accommodation barges on the Forth and Clyde Canal to someone at HES.

 

He wonders

 

Quote

I suspect that the men may have been involved in building the oil pipe from the Clyde to Grangemouth which was built in the second half of the WW1. Americans oil men were in charge of construction project but some work might have been done by RE, The barges are accommodation for the men, so doubt that they would stay in these any longer than was strictly required. Given the ease to built huts on ground rather than adapt barges, would suggest that the ability of these to move along the canal was deemed important and so construction of the oil pipeline would allow the men to move from site to site. Just a thought, will be interesting to see what comes back

 

[IvanTaylor]

Following from Ken's post above. Mine is also about Cornishmen.

I was made curious by a newspaper article from January 1918 from Grass Valley, California (Grass Valley Morning Union, January 31, 1918, 2.)  which comments on 16 Cornish miners from that town that were recruited to join the IWT.  Article and transcript attached - my Great Grandfather, Richard Toye, is marked in red. 

 

My queries are:-

1. I would have expected that mining specialists would have been more likely to join one of the tunneling companies.  Has the paper got the wrong end of the stick?

2. Richard failed basic training on health grounds. Could anyone suggest where I could find more information on Richard's enlistment/rejection?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

 

An intersting article concerning this: https://www.theunion.com/news/your-king-and-country-need-you-world-war-i-british-and-canadian-recruiting-mission-in-nevada-county/

 

 

Enlistment.pdf

Edited 21 November , 2021 by IvanTaylor

[mbriscoe]

There is a longer list of recruits a bit later.

 

• The Morning Union (Grass Valley, California)
• 15 Mar 1918, Fri
• Page 3

 

[kenf48]

2 hours ago, IvanTaylor said:

1. I would have expected that mining specialists would have been more likely to join one of the tunneling companies.  Has the paper got the wrong end of the stick?

2. Richard failed basic training on health grounds. Could anyone suggest where I could find more information on Richard's enlistment/rejection?

Welcome to the forum

The service record of William Eva WR/600421 has survived.   He was posted to 327 Quarrying Company Royal Engineers and the BEF on the 6th December 1918.  His trade was 'Miner and Quarryman' he was tested by the RE at the IWT HQ at Richborough on the 6th February 1918 and graded 'Very Superior'.

As to what a 'miner and quarryman' did in the RE (apart from the obvious) then you probably need someone more expert than I am.

I think Eva's record (although key parts are badly faded) gives a good indication of the process your grandfather went through, up to his discharge.

I've not looked for any of the others, and unfortunately there does not appear to be any surviving records for your grandfather.

 

[IvanTaylor]

Looks like they were quarrying roadstone: https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/quarry-companies-of-the-royal-engineers/

[kenf48]

1 hour ago, IvanTaylor said:

Looks like they were quarrying roadstone: https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/quarry-companies-of-the-royal-engineers/

Should have guessed the answer would be on the LLT

[MerchantOldSalt]

2 hours ago, IvanTaylor said:

Looks like they were quarrying roadstone: https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/quarry-companies-of-the-royal-engineers/

Not at first.

Six Service Records for men on your list, the only ones I can find up to now:

Goldsworthy WR 600436

Eva   WR 600421

Cocking WR 600428

Grigg WR 600419

Pearce WR 600420

Dunn WR 600422

Show that the men were initially posted to the National Shipyards under construction at Chepstow, No1,  Beachley, No.2, on the river Wye, and Portbury, No.3 on the River Severn.  Despite their civilian trades being Miners and Quarrymen the IWT Trades in which they were employed are as Crane driver, Machinists and Navvies.

The National Shipyard Scheme was not a success and though No.1 Yard did launch a ship prior to the armistice it wasn't completed before the end, the other yards were never completed.  At the end of the War, it looks like some of the six men were sent to France as already noted concerning Eva, but their records do not show in what work 327 Quarry Coy was engaged post armistice.

Tony

 

Edited 21 November , 2021 by MerchantOldSalt

[IvanTaylor]

At the end of the war there was probably a lot of roads that needed resurfacing...

[Tony Jones]

Hope this is of interest.  I found the forum when working out what IWT was. 

The photo is one my grandfather took when serving with the Northumberland Fusiliers in Mesopotamia & elsewhere.  His service record isn't available (?burnt one?) & the 2nd General Battalion did not keep a war diary so I know nothing of his service (1916 - 1920) apart what's in his photo album.  The photo comes from a page in an album titled "Scenes on the Shat-el- Arab at Basrah"  The photo itself is titled "Wireless Station and IWT, RE Headquarters".  

Tony 

[charlie962]

19 minutes ago, Tony Jones said:

my grandfather took when serving with the Northumberland Fusiliers in Mesopotamia & elsewhere.  His service record isn't available (?burnt one?) & the 2nd General Battalion did not keep a war diary so I know nothing of his service (1916 - 1920) apart what's in his photo album.

Welcome to The forum and thank you for sharing the photo.

Can I suggest you now start your own topic under 'Soldiers' for your grandfather (tell us his name, date of birth , where he lived and his service number please) and I'm sure experts will appear to try to give you some clues as to his probable service. I look forward to seeing more pics.

Charlie

PS did he take some of the photos himself?

Edited 31 December , 2021 by charlie962

[mbriscoe]

Does anyone have a photograph of the window commemorating the Inland Water Transport Royal Engineers WW1 And WW2 and Transportation And Movements WW2 - not sure if two seperate memorials as both at the same place.  If you own the copyright, i.e. took the pictures and give permission, then I can add to the records on the IWM War Memorial Record.

 

https://www.iwm.org.uk/memorials/item/memorial/35168

https://www.iwm.org.uk/memorials/item/memorial/35166

This has a picture but might be of interest

https://www.iwm.org.uk/memorials/item/memorial/64608

 

Any others?

 

 

 

[kenf48]

19 minutes ago, Tony Jones said:

Hope this is of interest.  I found the forum when working out what IWT was. 

Welcome to the forum and thank you for posting the photograph.

Do you mean the 2nd Garrison Battalion NF?  They did not keep a diary as they were stationed in India which was not a theatre of war, though it appears your grandfather made it to Basrah which was the entry port for the Mesopotamia Campaign and was a theatre of war.

As suggested above if you want us to have a look at his service start a new thread in the 'Soldiers' forum

[Tony Jones]

2 hours ago, charlie962 said:

Welcome to The forum and thank you for sharing the photo.

Can I suggest you now start your own topic under 'Soldiers' for your grandfather (tell us his name, date of birth , where he lived and his service number please) and I'm sure experts will appear to try to give you some clues as to his probable service. I look forward to seeing more pics.

Charlie

PS did he take some of the photos himself?

Thanks for the reply. 

Re PS did he take some of the photos himself?  His hardback album contains 24 pages each with 4 photos (approx 3" x 2").  These were all developed at the time & I suspect because of "home" developing & the passage of time some are now quite faded.  I had to tweak the posted one to give the detail you can see.  These are mostly of Mesopotamia With a few of India when he was on leave.  Additionally there are 24 6" x 4" photos with inscriptions on the reverse & seem to be mainly Baghdad

[FROGSMILE]

On 31/12/2021 at 19:16, Tony Jones said:

Thanks for the reply. 

Re PS did he take some of the photos himself?  His hardback album contains 24 pages each with 4 photos (approx 3" x 2").  These were all developed at the time & I suspect because of "home" developing & the passage of time some are now quite faded.  I had to tweak the posted one to give the detail you can see.  These are mostly of Mesopotamia With a few of India when he was on leave.  Additionally there are 24 6" x 4" photos with inscriptions on the reverse & seem to be mainly Baghdad

Can you please post these, starting with the better, less faded ones?