Walmer Castle, Cape Helles

[Sepoy]

Does anyone know the precise location of "Walmer Castle", at Cape Helles, during the Gallipoli Campaign (not the ship). This rest camp/dump was mentioned by Sapper Eric Wettern, RND Engineers, in his wartime diary and also features in an Imperial War Museum photograph here
http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205248804

Any help would be gratefully received.

Sepoy

[michaeldr]

location of "Walmer Castle", at Cape Helles, during the Gallipoli Campaign (not the ship). This rest camp/dump

Sepoy,

I am looking at a map of Helles, but alas am having difficulty cropping or posting it this morning

However if a verbal description will do........

Moving in-land from Morto Bay up the Kanli Dere, there is a bridge which crosses the dere just before you get to Skew Bridge

The track which crosses this bridge immediately splits into three

Between the central and the right-hand of these three tracks is the last of the ruined Water Towers, (which on this map is indicated as being refered to as Harrods)

Next to this (eastwards) is a pencil note “RND DUMP”

This could be Walmer Castle

Sort of backing-up the above is a ref found in Len Sellers' magazine RND issue No.18,Sept. 2001, page 1705, in the account by Lt. F H Mann, RNVR, formerly RND Engineers, telling of his cruise visit in May 1934

“We set out from Helles afoot and it was not long before Walmer Castle and Zimmermann's Farm were located. The presence of stone huts which had been erected subsequently made it difficult to recognise Backhouse Post”

Other places such as Romano's Well, Brown House & White House are also mentioned by Mann in the correct order as one moves towards the front line, So I strongly suspect that he got Walmer Castle right too, its being reached before Zimmermann Farm & Backhouse Post

I hope that this is of some help.

Regards

Michael

[Sepoy]

Michael

Thank you so much for your suggestion, which I think is quite correct. I have found references to Walmer Castle being on the "Towers" plain, so I knew that it was in that rough area.

Using your directions, I have been going through my copied maps trying to find one marked RND Depot, so far without success. However, I have noticed some more inaccuracies as the position of Kanli Dere differs on some maps.

Sepoy

[Sepoy]

Having recently revisited my hunt for Walmer Castle, I have discovered the map mentioned above by Michaeldr, marked with RND Dump.
Google Earth now includes "Street View", for part of the Gallipoli Peninsular, and the attached photo shows a current view of the Dump.

Backed up with Michael's quote from Len Seller's RND Magazine, this is probably the location of Walmer Castle.
All I need now is for the Coronavirus to come under real control, and for me to renew my Passport, to allow me to walk in the steps of my Gt Gt Uncle Max Gordon who served with the RND Engineers during the Gallipoli Campaign.

Edited 29 July , 2020 by Sepoy

[michaeldr]

12 hours ago, Sepoy said:

All I need now is for the Coronavirus to come under real control, and for me to renew my Passport, to allow me to walk in the steps of my Gt Gt Uncle Max Gordon who served with the RND Engineers during the Gallipoli Campaign.

 

Hi Sepoy,

 

We're all looking forward to next year and hoping to revisit again without restrictions

The Gallipoli Association has worked very successfully with Battle Honours Tours Ltd for a number of years now

and for 2021 we have pencilled in 9th to 14th May 

[emphasis on the word pencilled at this stage I'm afraid]

 

If you need any further details, then please let me know

Keep well

Michael

[Sepoy]

4 hours ago, michaeldr said:

The Gallipoli Association has worked very successfully with Battle Honours Tours Ltd for a number of years now

and for 2021 we have pencilled in 9th to 14th May [emphasis on the word pencilled at this stage I'm afraid]

 

Hi Michael
Hopefully, I will be in a place to join you (as long as my health holds up)
Sepoy

[Eceabat]

Hi Sepoy,

 

just an addition to your thread, and a comment about the photo you posted. 

 

In the undergrowth below the tree line in the picture, there are a series of collapsed dugouts and shelters. If you look closely at that area below the pine trees in the image you should see the white of exposed rocks, these mark the position of some of the dugouts. 

 

I can't say whether the dugouts were associated with the dump, though recent wanderings in that area have turned up quantities of broken glass, rusted nails that could well have been from store boxes and sundry bits and pieces.

 

Cheers

Bill

[Sepoy]

Hi Bill

Thank you for pointing out where the collapsed dugouts and shelters are in the photograph, which adds weight to the place being Walmer Castle. I will have to dig out my Gt Gt Uncle's letters to see how he describes the area. Whilst at the camp, he used to enjoy visiting near by French artillery positions to acquire coffee beans from them, which he ground using a fired Turkish fuse!

Sepoy

[Eceabat]

Hi Sepoy,

 

there were French gun positions within 200 metres of the camp, so your great uncle would not have had far to go for his morning brew. There are also a string of French dugouts all along the cliff face running to the south east from the Walmer Castle dump to well past the site of the present day French Cemetery.

 

Bill

[michaeldr]

A prominent feature of the landscape here (at least at the very beginning of the campaign) were the so called 'water towers' - see the maps in posts 3 & 4

This photograph shows the arrival of French artillery with the water towers to be seen in the background

https://previews.agefotostock.com/previewimage/medibigoff/25ab3e0363906231c2b2643e02148a44/zx4-3052876.webp

[copyright by the agefotostock.fr website]

[Sepoy]

My Gt Gt Uncle, Deal 400 (S) Sapper David Maxwell Gordon, 2nd Field Company, RND Engineers, received a head wound from a shrapnel bullet on 6th May, 1915 and was evacuated to Egypt.

On his return to the Peninsular, he wrote the following in a letter to his wife (my favourite Gt Gt Aunt Lilly, who sparked my interest in history). Although, he does not mention Walmer Castle by name, it certainly matches up with the above location.

The letter is dated 19th June, 1915. (Regretfully, I only have a transcript)
(Please do not re-publish etc with out permission of Sepoy@Great War Forum.)
"You see I’m back at the front once more. Arrived Wednesday morning, and after a little sorting out, got a guide and started for the lines. The journey was rather eventful, as the Turkish Gentlemen have a happy habit of firing shells from long range, in the hope of hitting something.
 

After a quiet life, I found it almost too strenuous. As you know, I don’t usually strike acquaintances readily, but I called on quite a lot of total strangers - literally dropped in. Nothing came really close, it looked much worse than it was. However I arrived in camp - called a rest camp because you can’t get much rest with Artillery firing and ants and flies and sundry other drawbacks - and found the Company. It took some time to hunt everybody up. They look a cheerful lot of tramps, beards on some, and a varied assortment of headgear, and sunburnt to a nice brown. No one can tell if your face is dirty or not. Very handy.
 

I had supper Thursday night with Dunsford. I spent a good part of the day enlarging a dug-out I liked, and took on a long lease, western aspect, close to the sea, (about x miles) and all that sort of thing, turned in and slept soundly. Yesterday, I went up to the firing line. It is a pretty long walk, up a brook till you come to Oxford Street. You follow this in a multitude of twists and wiggles and get lost several times, but finally arrive at the firing line. I was working in a sap pushed forward from the main trench, quite close to the Turks.

 

We took the trench last night. It was late before we got back, but if I had to do the guide I wouldn’t be back yet, I’m afraid. At all events we got back, and turned in. Just dropping off when something tickled my leg. I gave it a smite, stretched out again, but something started kicking in my blanket, so I arose, struck a match, and there was a mouse trotting round. I wasted a box of matches and burnt all my fingers before I hurled him out, turned in again, rather ruffled, and another was in my valise, which forms my pillow. Out that went without any light wasted. Made another pillow and a fresh start, and slept the sleep of the just."

I am also looking forward to seeing how far along the "brook" (Kanli Dere) it is possible to walk now, from Skew Bridge. With everything I want to see, it is going to be a long trip!

Sepoy

 

Edited 9 August , 2020 by Sepoy

[Eceabat]

Hi Sepoy,

 

nice account, thanks for sharing it.

 

There is a track along the western side of Kanli Dere that runs past Romano's Well while there is also a track, in use in 1915 that ran up on the eastern side of the dere, starting almost exactly from the site where Walmer Castle was located, and running up past Romano's Well towards Oxford Street.

 

Bill

 

 

[Simon Tindall]

My Great Grandfather was with RND (E) 853 TINDALL and was garrisoned at Walmer 

December 1914-February 1915

and shows as being in Gallipoli between 1/3/15- 8/6/16   Can’t find out what he did or indeed if he was attached to a Field Coy   

[Sepoy]

On 30/08/2020 at 19:13, Simon Tindall said:

My Great Grandfather was with RND (E) 853 TINDALL and was garrisoned at Walmer 

December 1914-February 1915

and shows as being in Gallipoli between 1/3/15- 8/6/16   Can’t find out what he did or indeed if he was attached to a Field Coy   

Members of the RND Engineers were trained near Walmer in Kent, and the local area, before going overseas. This rest camp on the Gallipoli Peninsular was called "Walmer Castle" after it.
Having a quick look at Joseph Tndall's service records, I think he served with the Divisional Signal Company, RND Engineers.
The Company's war diaries for Gallipoli (which include some other ranks names) can be found on Ancestry here
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/60380/images/42871_1831101456_11668-00001?ssrc=&backlabel=Return
Hope this helps
Sepoy

[wampa]

Hi All,

Just reviving this post. Im doing a little work and research on the RNDE, I was wondering if Sepoy managed to get back out to Gallipoli and locate Walmer Castle.

Regards

Wampa

[Sepoy]

On 08/05/2023 at 17:38, wampa said:

Hi All,

Just reviving this post. Im doing a little work and research on the RNDE, I was wondering if Sepoy managed to get back out to Gallipoli and locate Walmer Castle.

Regards

Wampa

Hi Wampa

Sorry for the delay in responding to your post.

I am still researching the RNDE and Walmer Castle, whenever I get the chance. Unfortunately, suffering from CFS/ME my life can be a little unpredictable and has not been helped by my wife being struck down by long covid. As a result, I have yet to visit Gallipoli.

A few "Gallipoli" photos appeared on Gallipoli Association Facebook page today, posted by Bernie Freyberg, which I believe were taken close to Walmer Castle.
See here 
https://www.facebook.com/gallipoliassociation

What is your interest in the RNDE?

Sepoy
 

Edited 22 May , 2023 by Sepoy

[wampa]

No problem regarding the delay, glad to see your still mining for information, great stuff.

Have sent you a PM.