MICs to Territorials

[Ken Lees]

This issue came up on a recent thread about an individual soldier but I thought I'd repost it here in the hope that more people might see it and comment.

I'm not 100% sure if I'm right with this one, but I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong:

The fact that only a 6-digit number is shown on the Medal Index Card for a Territorial soldier doesn't mean that he joined after the time these numbers were introduced (c. early 1917), rather that the first number he served in a theatre of war with, and thereby became eligible for the medals, was the 6-digit one.

Wasn't it the case that a man who joined in 1915 but who, for various possible reasons, only went out to a theatre of war after early 1917, would only have his later number recorded along with his eligibility for the BW & Vic medals?

Amongst the MICs of the battalion that I am researching, many of the later 6-digit numbers are shown with the 4-digit one, but earlier 6-digit number in the battalion's allocated 'block' don't have the 4-digit one recorded. I am currently working on the theory (as yet unproven) that perhaps those whose 4-digit number is shown on the MIC were 1st line territorials who would have gone to France anytime from March 1915 (when the battalion was first deployed) and those without a 4-digit number on the MIC were either 2nd line territorials who didn't go out to France before May 1917, or later post-early 1917 reinforcements to the 1st line battalion.

Is this an over-simplistic view? Any comments would be appreciated.

Regards,

Ken

[jim_davies]

Ken,

Your theory sounds fine. It certainly fits with my conclusions for the 1/4th and 2/4th Lincs.

Occassionally you'll find the four digit number for men in different types of records (newspapers/rolls of honour/individual full service records) even if the MIC only shows a six digit number.

Jim

[Ken Lees]

Thanks Jim.

I expect that there will be numerous exceptions to disporve this theory, not least because of the poor accuracy record of the indexing of the Medal Index Cards, but since I am too far away from the NA for anything other than a once or twice-yearly visit I will have to amke do with the MIC Online.

Anyone else got any observations on the theory?

Regards,

Ken

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

Generally I'd suggest you are correct in your theory,Also if the Man served with another unit ,it may be that his later number is the number on his Medals{I have this with an Armourer Sergeant Arthur Ripley ,who would have served with the 1/1st Bn;Cambridgeshire Regiment in France from 14th February 1915,with his 3 Figure Number{Which I cannot trace~somewhere in the 280 Range is as far as I can get,using other Numbers in the NA} He transferred to the AOC & was renumbered with an AOC Number,but his Trio is impressed with his 1916 Cambridgeshire Regt TF Number 325027,No mention of his Old 3 digit number surviving on either Index Cards or Roll Page,even though he was serving with them in 1915 in France,until well into 1916.}

[John_Hartley]

Ken

Sounds like a reasonable point - and certainly doesnt contradict what I have for 1/6th Cheshires. I actually havnt got any corroboration about enlistment dates for anyone with just a six digit number. Therefore, I cannot prove or disprove your hypothesis.

John

[dycer]

Ken,

I don't know if this assists but here goes.

I have Trios to two Relatives who served with the 8th Royal Scots,landing in France in November 1914.

The first was originally numbered 20,and this number is stamped on his 1914 Star.

He was renumbered to 325002 in 1917 but his War and Victory Medal are stamped 4208.He was a 1918 casualty.This supports your suggestion that 4 figure numbers were allocated to "original" Territorials but I have no idea how this number was arrived at.

The second Trio I have is to a 1915 casualty.All three Medals are stamped 582 which I assume was his original Territorial Number.This may help if you come across a 3 figure number on the MICs.

I have to confess I have not downloaded the MICs for my Relatives and wonder if I do whether I will become more confused?

George

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

I have Trios to two Relatives who served with the 8th Royal Scots,landing in France in November 1914.

    The first was originally numbered 20,and this number is stamped on his 1914 Star.

    He was renumbered to 325002 in 1917 but his War and Victory Medal are stamped 4208.      

The second Trio I have is to a 1915 casualty.All three Medals are stamped 582 which

I would suggest that he served with another Battalion to be re~numbered 4208,,& the Medals Numbered erronously;there is no other reason why a Man with the Number 20 would be Re Numbered prior to the TF Re Numbering,unless he had TransferredBattalions or units,hence Trios etc with low Numbers:1~999,in TF Battalions,as with your second trio,

A quick look@ the MiC online,searching using the Numbers only; shows two Index Cards for your Man{& @ least one other Man with that "20" Number in the RS{Obviously another TF Bn Man in another Bn;}} ,No 20 as Corporal & a Card with the Numbers 4208 & 325002{which would correspond to:# 20 when the Numbers were changed in 1916/7,being probably only the 2nd Man still serving with that low a number in the Battalion,why the 4 & 8 were prefixed & suffixed unless he changed Battalion,for a period{possibly Wounded & posted to Depot/Reserve Battalion,{3/8thBn?}Until he Recovered to Return to 1/8th Bn,I can only imagine,The Medal Roll Page may provide the Answer,rather than the MiC

[dycer]

Harry,

Thanks for that.

As you appreciate the two Men are my Uncles.

I suppose it is possible that No 20 did change Battalions for a short period.However,all the evidence I have suggests he spent his time in the 1/8th Royal Scots e.g. Field Post Card from Xmas 1914 and Xmas Cards from 1916 and 1917.

I appreciate this does not help Ken much.He seems to be looking for consistency when there is none!

George