Gilbert Burley. 1/4 Royal Berks 2917/200731 Captured at Hebuterne in M

[nicktamarensis]

Hello,

Our relative Gilbert, was posted as missing in May 1916 in the local Reading newpaper. Thanks to your help on another post we have identified him as being captured at Hebuterne and later becoming a POW at Giessen. (Would this suggest he was captured by a Saxon unit?)

At the time Hebuterne was a supposedly 'quet' sector which had been occupied by the battalion for some time. Is it possible to get any nearer to the circumstances of Gilbert's capture? Could this have been a German trench raid or even a failed British one? Might the regimental record suggest something?

The German POW record shows Royal Berks OR's captured in the same sector - but probably not at the same time.

Sorry - another question - would Gilbert's attestation/war record still exist?

Gilbert survived the war but would not talk of his experiences.

Many thanks in advance.

Nick.

[ss002d6252]

I can't see a surviving service record for him.

When in May was he reported as having been captured ?. There were certainly actions that led to casualties during this time period according to the diaries.

Craig

[HarryBrook]

On the night of 15/16 May 1916, following a German raid 29 other ranks were reported missing (27 from B Company and 2 from D)

The war diary of 15 May 1916 reported :

"Working parties as before.

Their guns were active most of the day - 77mm, 10.5cm, and 15cm. Especially the latter. No registration was done.

It was a very quiet night up to 12.30am, when a very heavy bombardment, followed by a raid, was made.

A detailed report is attached.

Casualties Killed 18, Wounded, Missing 29."

If you go to http://grandeguerre.icrc.org/ and look at some of the men of 1/4th Royal Berks. R. on the same summary page as Gilbert Burley you will see, for example, that Frederick Gee 2793, was captured at Hebuterne on 16 May 1916. No doubt the same can be proved for some of the other 1/4th Berks. men for whom more detail is available, and the total number held by the Germans established.

You can be confident, I think, that he was captured on the night of 15/16 May 1916.

[nicktamarensis]

Thank you so much for this information. It is greatly appreciated. I did wonder whether it was a raid.

Have you any idea of the identity of the German unit ?

[Colin W Taylor]

Nick

Might be worth a look - it's a battalion history:

https://archive.org/details/warserviceberk00crutuoft

The history of the 12th Yorks and Lancs 'Sheffield City Battalion' goes into the raid as well - they were just south of the 1/4th Berks and the Germans entered by their trenches. There's a good plan based on an aerial photo.

It'll be worth looking at the war diaries on Ancestry for these two units as well as the relevant Brigade and possibly Divisional Diaries - these may include reports of the raid and any identifications of German units that were present.

Kind regards

Colin

[Loader]

Another case of a high casualty rate for a unit that was raided. I'd expect a report / enquiry into the affair would've been made to Bde or higher. Even more so since it was another whose line was penetrated by the raiders who then took the Berks from the South. I'd think the CO of the Berks would have demanded an investigation.

[hillgorilla]

It could have been the 52 Infanterie Division from Baden or the 2 Garde Reserve Division.

[nicktamarensis]

Wow,

Thanks very much to all for the extra information. I will have a look at the records as you suggest.

It sounds as if the battalion caught a packet that night!

I wonder heads rolled as a result of an enquiry?

Much appreciated.

Nick

[Rollerbeadle]

If you haven't seen it before, there is a very good account of the action on the 16th May 1916 on John Chapman's website here

Open the PDF document and go to page 10.

Kind regards

Steve

[HarryBrook]

The account referred to Steve's post #9 is the Commanding Officer's actual official report on the German raid, as attached to 1/4th Bn. Royal Berkshire Regt. war diary (verbatim).

[nicktamarensis]

Thanks very much.

I have replied seperately to Erics message and offer of the battalion diary.

[Rollerbeadle]

Here he is

[nicktamarensis]

Hello all,

Thanks very much for all your efforts and information on behalf of out relatives Gilbert and Joseph.

This is greatly appreciated.

How you all find the time I can't imagine! Plus to be able to approach this wonderful site and call on the (free!) unstinting dedication and advice from so many is at the same time both humbling and inspiring - especially in this cynical age age when even 'something for nothing' has a price tag of some sort! .

'Above and beyond the call of duty' as they used to say.

Nick.

[eh657]

See Cruttwell's "The War Service of the 1/4 Royal Berkshire Regiment (TF)" Chapter VIII 'The New Trench and The Raid' particularly the description beginning on page 61 with sentence "On May 8th we relieved the 4th Oxfords in G Sector on the extreme right of the Brigade front."