WilliamRev Posted 3 May , 2015 Share Posted 3 May , 2015 One of my grandfather's trench maps from 3rd Ypres Sept 1917 is printed on thin paper, and took quite a hammering at the time when he took it into action with him, never mind the 98 years since. it is increasingly fragile, and is parting company with itself along the folds. Can this be professionally conserved, presumably by being stuck to some sort of backing? Is it expensive to have done? What do other forum members do with their falling-apart wafer-thin original trench maps? Any thoughts or advice welcome, thanks, William Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
green_acorn Posted 3 May , 2015 Share Posted 3 May , 2015 The way the Australian War Memorial preserves their maps is to lay them out flat within a large folded sheet of Mylar® archival standard polyester plastic film. It is the same material librarians often use for book covers, though generally for maps you use a thicker variety of the film. Cheers, Hendo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Jacket Collector Posted 3 May , 2015 Share Posted 3 May , 2015 If it's just a single map why not have it framed? It's the constant opening that makes them fall apart. Sandwiched between perspex and hardboard they're well protected and look rather fine on the wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaforths Posted 3 May , 2015 Share Posted 3 May , 2015 DJ your advice seemed a great idea, for a few seconds. Then I recalled a piece of advice regardiing a WW2 photograph of my father that I had taken to him to copy for someone else. The photo was still in the frame when I took it (it wasn't very big). His advice was; put a copy in a frame. Otherwise, it will become light damaged over time. I took the photographer's advice and did the same thing for a few other very old photographs I had in frames around the house. Taking DJs advice in another direction, there are companies that can scan and copy fragile documents, even huge things, like maps. These companies are not cheap, I know and they tend to get most of their income from businesses. They do take on private customers too but they don't drop their prices. I have a series of maps of Germany, produced in 1913. They are still very bright and clear but the foldiing...when I acquired them, I realised they had come to resemble a concertina in places. Trying to open them without tearing them was quite a tricky busines. In addition the folds of corners and the concertina places were showing signs of deterioration and were developing holes. These are also paper maps by the way and so treading carefully, I pressed them on the reverse with an iron and a thin tea towel over the top. Some of the very bad areas, I had to use a little water spray onto the tea towel. I was concerned about shrinkage so I didn't go overboard. I thought it might be quite a risky venture and I did try a small test piece on an edge where there wasn't any actual map image. I pressed rather than ironed and I only did it on the folds and creases. After all that, I then carefully scanned tme, without putting the scanner lid down and using books to keep each map section exactly in place and then I stitched the scans together. I'm very pleased with the results. By scanning an overlap of a couple of inches, I was able to get the joins spot on. However, there is also a moral to this too. Most of the maps took either 2, 4 or 6 A3 scans. The largest has not been done. It would run to 9 A3 scans and not only would it be impossible to manipulate on the scanner, it might become more damaged in the process. My computer editing software rocked a bit handling 6 sections. I knew it wouldn't handle the combined file size of 9 sections anyway. I phoned the company back that I had contacted earlier expecting a vast reduction on the £70 they initially quoted me and I was very disappointed. Something they neglected to tell me initially, it would cost £70 whether I did 6 maps or 1 map. I'm not sure how their pricing system works that way... The orignal maps are now rolled rather than folded and stored in a very tall tube. Unfortunately, the biggest one that I couldn't scan has to come out from time to time and I have to photograph the small section I want. I don't know if any of this will be helpful. Hopefully some bits of it will. I might also consider contacting museums that have a professional archivist for advice on putting it onto a backing. I know that any materials used should be acid free. The very best of luck with your project whatever route you decide to take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaJane Posted 3 May , 2015 Share Posted 3 May , 2015 Google the Institute of Paper Conservators and see whether it has a member near you. Also try contacting your nearest university's rare books division for advice. (I agree about Mylar/Melinex envelopes; another answer is Japanese paper and pure starch paste, but professional application is best there). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 3 May , 2015 Share Posted 3 May , 2015 I have a box full of trench maps and I didn't want to consider framing them as they would take up a huge amount of wall space, I chose the one that I thought was the most interesting because it was double sided with intelligence questions on the reverse. It was the only one like that and it was of a medium size. I sandwiched it between two sheets of plexiglass/perspex and carefully drilled holes around the edges and then bolted it together with nylon nuts and bolts. I then sealed it with tape to keep out any dampness and give it a neater look. It has been like that for about eight years and has not deteriorated at all plus I can display both sides. khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 3 May , 2015 Share Posted 3 May , 2015 You may also have luck with your local county archive as many run services for document preservation, scanning etc. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawley Jockey Posted 3 May , 2015 Share Posted 3 May , 2015 I have an original First War poem penned in 1915 on a double sided sheet of paper (Probably from a soldiers note book) I know it is smaller than a trench map but I had it framed many years ago with a light/sun resistant glass (double sided so I could still read both sides of the sheet) it is still as good as when I had it framed. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamRev Posted 3 May , 2015 Author Share Posted 3 May , 2015 Thanks for all those views; very helpful, and they have given me food for thought, not least about whether I want to frame the map or not. If so, I like the sound of that light/sun resistant glass, if it really works. My grandfather's other unique map, from Oct 1918, is canvas-backed so I don't have the same problem. Any more thoughts would still be welcome! [The map in question has been scanned by me in 6 scans, and is this one that I have e-mailed to dozens of forum members - the offer still stands!] William Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Jacket Collector Posted 3 May , 2015 Share Posted 3 May , 2015 I think as long as you avoid direct sunlight then most framed printed paper survives pretty well. My map has been up for over 10 years and hasn't deteriorated yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamRev Posted 3 May , 2015 Author Share Posted 3 May , 2015 I think as long as you avoid direct sunlight then most framed printed paper survives pretty well. My map has been up for over 10 years and hasn't deteriorated yet. If you click the link you'll see just a small section of the map - it has been marked up in coloured crayon/pencil (therein lies its uniqueness - the one in the National Archives - 8th Brigade war diary - is not as detailed), and I'm more worried about this than the printing ink on the map. William Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Jacket Collector Posted 3 May , 2015 Share Posted 3 May , 2015 If you click the link you'll see just a small section of the map - it has been marked up in coloured crayon/pencil (therein lies its uniqueness - the one in the National Archives - 8th Brigade war diary - is not as detailed), and I'm more worried about this than the printing ink on the map. William I take your point. It would be an awful shame if those faded away. My map has ink markings on it from the Artillery officer who used it but it's heavy black ink so probably fairly resistant to the sun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beechhill Posted 3 May , 2015 Share Posted 3 May , 2015 Would museums or archives be interested in assisting/contributing in scanning such items in return for a copy of their own? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barkalotloudly Posted 3 May , 2015 Share Posted 3 May , 2015 A stationary supplier in Dereham photocopied about 5 trench maps for me {full size} for very little money i seem to think about 10.00 he was more concerned about the copyright! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaforths Posted 3 May , 2015 Share Posted 3 May , 2015 I do think that those who say they do not consider there has been any degradation over time, will perhaps not notice a rapid change (unless it has been placed in direct sunlight). Only speaking for myself but if I see something every day, I would be unlikely to notice subtle changes. I inherited a few photographs already framed and they had been frames for around 85 years possibly a year or two longer. One of these is a copy. It was enlarged from a smaller photograph which has rarely seen the light of day. It could be that the copy was not of very good quality when it was done. However, there is a massive difference between the original and the copy that has probably been in a frame and on display since the 1920s. I scanned the original, enlarged it and the detail is outstanding. The darker shades are much darker. Spraying it with artist fixative (a very expensive hair spray!) would create a barrier but it can have a dulling effect by muting some colours of chalk based substances such as pastels. I think I would still go along with the suggestions of contacting museum archivists. It didn't matter so much for me as I had no intention of displaying my maps. I just wanted to protect them from any further wear and tear that I knew they would get because I do use them. Is it so very big that it couldn't be photographed with a camera with lots of mega-pixies and printed off as a poster? Can't do it with the map I have left, as I'd probably have to get onto the garage roof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
green_acorn Posted 4 May , 2015 Share Posted 4 May , 2015 MYLAR! For those of you who have rolled maps, do please seriously invest in Mylar, or other archival polyester film, and lay them flat. Mylar was the product recommended to me on my museum management course conducted by Monash University, for the AAHU, back in 2000. Not only will Mylar not stick to paper, it also has UV light protection properties. As seaforths has said, if you can avoid it never put originals up on display use scanned copies, over time, twenty to thirty year for example images fade just from the normal indoor lighting. Museums and art galleries even go to the extent of sheathing their fluorescent lights in Mylar sleeves if they can't get the "proper" fluorescent tubes recommended for those sites. If you must roll your maps for storage, use the largest diameter tube you can get (I suggest PVC pipe from a plumbing supply shop with screw end caps), but still use the Mylar as well, that way you won't damage the map getting it into and out of the tube and the larger diameter will reduce the rolled "memory" tightly rolled maps develop (ie: wanting to roll itself back up when you get it out of the tube). Cheers, Hendo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartH Posted 4 May , 2015 Share Posted 4 May , 2015 This is an interesting question, and you have to consider what you want to do with the maps afterwards. You can mount in a case with a glass front, but use special glass to stop UV light, professional framers use it, best place is a framers near an art school. I have a a special map display case mounted on the landing with many OH maps in it, and I change them, it's over 2 m by 1 m. That has the anti UV glass in it. Restoration of the map, small tears use document archival repair tape and a reveresable water soluble glue. If the map needs heavy restoration mount professionally with a linen back, that will preserve if for future generations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaforths Posted 4 May , 2015 Share Posted 4 May , 2015 Sound advice from Hendo and others on Mylar. The protective qualities of Mylar are fairly well known to librarians and bookish people, and I have some books that arrived with Mylar wrap arounds. I did at one point consider this for quite a few other books and my research at that time indicated that it would be quite an expensive project and not one I wished to pursue. I think, if I'm not mistaken, it can be purchased in rolls of various sizes? I didn't look at the option regarding maps but quite possibly they would do it of a big enough size to cope. Storing large items in a flat condition is a bit problematic if you don't have the room and the reason why I use tubes. Using drainpipes for very big items - what an ingenious idea! I did purchase some reproductions of old maps from NLS quite a while ago and I keep those in their original tubes that they were delivered in. I know they are just reproductions and I could have just folded them to make storage easier but again, they are dragged out and poured over when I'm doing ancestry research. They would have become quite tatty by now. The corner of the small room we call 'the study' looks as though someone has had an argument with an organ (there are about half a dozen tubes of different heights and diameters). It's the only way I can deal with the storage issue. However, if I were in Derek's position, I would find a way somehow of storing the original flat and out of the light. With regard to displaying copies of originals, people have commented with interest on the photographs and I am honest and say I copied and enlarged it from the original. Usually, I get a response of "Wow! You have the original?". No-one has ever expressed a curiousity for me to show them the original. Photographs can also be much more revealing when enlarged from the very small originals. One photograph that has never been in a frame, I borrowed from my mother and scanned and produced a very good quality enlargement. On occasions when she did take the photograph out to show someone, it had long been a puzzle as to what my great grandmother was holding in her hand in this image taken around 1890. You could see that the other maid was holding bellows. After being enlarged it can clearly be seen my great grandmother is polishing a silver spoon - mystery solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartH Posted 4 May , 2015 Share Posted 4 May , 2015 Lots of chit chat about Mylar, please if you are going to use it, use the UV enhanced stuff, Mylar D, read here about it http://www.egerber.com/aboutpreservation2.asp Also make sure you don't trap any moisture within the the Mylar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
green_acorn Posted 4 May , 2015 Share Posted 4 May , 2015 Good point from MartH, I have also just found that Dupont no longer make Mylar, though everyone continues to describe the polyester film as such. This document from the Australian Institute for the Conservation of Cultural Material is an excellent guide to the preservation of all types of material. Seaforth, In the past I have used a piece of pipe of about twice the diameter (200mm) of normal downpipe. Cheers, Hendo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartH Posted 4 May , 2015 Share Posted 4 May , 2015 Good point from MartH, I have also just found that Dupont no longer make Mylar, though everyone continues to describe the polyester film as such. This document from the Australian Institute for the Conservation of Cultural Material is an excellent guide to the preservation of all types of material. Seaforth, In the past I have used a piece of pipe of about twice the diameter (200mm) of normal downpipe. Cheers, Hendo Excellent site Hendo, might even be worth its own topic, thanks, Mart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaforths Posted 4 May , 2015 Share Posted 4 May , 2015 I must have been reading about UV enhanced Mylar at the time I was researching the material as it was given as having these properties. Handy to know that non-enhanced is out there to trip up the unwary. Hendo, I will keep your advice in mind, should I be tempted to add to my organ pipes. We all live in different climates. We cannot hope to emulate the storage conditions of museums and archives nor of their display conditions, due to the cost involved and our own personal comfort. We can only do our best with what we have and can afford. Like most folks, If it gets colder outside, I have no hesitation about cranking up the central heating thermostat if it's required. I guess too, that if in Derek's position, I would probably consider paying out and getting a darned good copy made and protecting that behind the UV resistant glass (as has been suggested previously) and putting the item to a museum or archive where they would be taking care of its preservation. I don't know whether I would/could ultimately do that but I would consider it. If it's something that is part of your family heritage, it's much, much more than an artefact. It would be an extremely difficult decision to make and see through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartH Posted 4 May , 2015 Share Posted 4 May , 2015 We cannot hope to emulate the storage conditions of museums and archives nor of their display conditions, due to the cost involved and our own personal comfort. and putting the item to a museum or archive where they would be taking care of its preservation. Sorry I disagree, I have some historically significant stuff properly stored, as do other members on this site. The site I posted is for comics, some of which are very valuable, loads more than Great War books. Don't take that as a given about museums. Many museums are really struggling and unless its very special, and not a duplicate, (which the will flog), they might want it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaJane Posted 4 May , 2015 Share Posted 4 May , 2015 A duplicate will (or should) only be sold off if both are truly identical. The minute you have different annotations or a different name in the front a good librarian will want to keep both (says this librarian) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartH Posted 4 May , 2015 Share Posted 4 May , 2015 A duplicate will (or should) only be sold off if both are truly identical. The minute you have different annotations or a different name in the front a good librarian will want to keep both (says this librarian) A lovely idea but one the IWM does not subscribe too and other libraries don't subscribe too as well. I purchased some of the lots from the IWM sale at Peacocks , New Zealand and Indian World War Two Official Histories, with presentation slips from the respective areas that published them, or Prime Minister of that country, with authors annotations, and a pencil mark to say for example "4th copy" or "second copy" , "not needed". I know some of the GW Australian GW OH's from the sale where presented by the author and then reviewed by British OH Historians, with annotations, and also disposed of. So sorry not happening at the Imperial War Museum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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