Can anybody help with the identification of the uniform in this photog

[gawains]

I believe this to be a photograph of my grandfather. I would like to know what uniform he is wearing and what rank ? I have only recently found this and it doesn't seem to tie in with him being in the 3rd battalion RWF which he was from early 1915. Given the low number of the negative it could be in the early stages of the war. Any help on this matter would be most welcome. Thank you.

[4thGordons]

Hi Gawains

I don't think you can infer any significance to the "negative" number - this was a number of relevance to the photographer alone and he could have started a sequence every day/shoot/subject so that is an imponderable without knowing how this photographer kept records or knowing of others in the series.

He is dressed for riding (not a huge revalation) but he is wearing spurs.

He is also a Sgt (3 stripes on his sleeve) which would suggest this photo was not taken when he first entered the army (as he is obviously not a new O/R)

The light coloured band on his cap is interesting. These are often seen to indicate officer cadets (apparently not the case here) and sometimes to show either referees or opposition forces in an exercise. As a Sgt a referee/observer during an exercise seems a good bet.

I can see nothing here to confirm unit

but he is a Sgt.

Have you found his medal index card? that may have clues.

Chris

Edit: the photographers mark (Ainsdale) is south of Southport -and between May 1915 and Nov 1917 the 3rd Reserve Battalion were at Litherland -- close by so that is strong support based on location (Litherland is south of Formby but not far down from Southport)

Edited 2 May , 2015 by 4thGordons

[munce]

Surely he could still be an officer cadet and a sergeant, at least after 1916 when officer cadet schools were opened up to other ranks? Horse riding was a central component of officer cadet training for artillery and other mounted units, so again, it doesn't seem inconsistent.

Munce

[FROGSMILE]

Yes I think he is an officer cadet at an early stage in his training. The white cap bands were used by all arms of the Army in that way and if he is an RWF sergeant there seem few other reasons why he would be on a military accoutred horse.

As 4th Gordon's says, the 3rd were the Reserve Battalion and responsible for holding, training and supplying replacements for the regular battalions.

[gawains]

Thank you all for replying so quickly.

There is a bit of a mystery with this as my grandfather wasn't as far as I know a Sgt but a L/cpl.

I should say that he is one of the photographers of this card. This is why I mention the negative number as being quite early because I have later photos of his and it would appear that there is just one long sequence. This photograph however is the first I have found attributed to a partnership rather than just in his own name. One other thing - I said he joined the RWF in early 1915 it was in fact Dec 1915.

could there be any reason why he would be dressed as he is in this photo ?

This is the only photograph of his from this period that he appears in.

[johnboy]

Can you give his name?

Are you saying that he was a photographer? If so maybe it is not him but a sample of his work?

[gawains]

My grandfather, worked as a photographer for most of his life.

I have a large archive of his work but all post WW1.

Over the last couple of years I have found photographs of his of various groups and individuals mainly RWF but other regiments as well.

This photograph both features my grandfather and has his name written in his hand naming him as photographer and obviously taken by his partner also named.

[munce]

Assuming he is Bernard Pinnington, the VM/BWM medal roll shows him serving in the 16th battalion of the RWF, which went to France in December 1915 and suffered heavy casualties in Mametz Wood during the battle of the Somme.In 1917 they were in action in the Third Battles of Ypres, in 1918 they were in action on The Somme, in the Battles of the Hindenburg Line and the Final Advance in Picardy (all from http://www.wartimememoriesproject.com/greatwar/allied/welchfusiliers16-gw.php).His Silver War Badge roll shows him being discharged from the depot, but this would be normal for soldiers in ill health who had been sent back to the UK to recover. But, as you say, his SWB roll and medal card and roll all show him as no higher than L/cpl. That being the case, the evidence from the uniform and what we know of his service indicates that man on the horse almost certainly isn't him.

Shoulder title experts might be able to comment on the photo: it seems to show a single line curved title - did RWF have a flaming grenade on their shoulder straps like other fusilier regiments? If they did, it might indicate that the man on the horse is not RWF.

[gawains]

Thank you Munce, Yes he was at Mametz and later gassed and wounded during the third battle of Ypres in 1917.

As you point out, given the details I know about my grandfather the man in the photograph shouldn't be him.

However I can't help thinking how unlikely it would be for him to meet and photograph his doppelgänger !

I am convinced this is my grandfather but why would he be wearing that uniform ?

[FROGSMILE]

Thank you Munce, Yes he was at Mametz and later gassed and wounded during the third battle of Ypres in 1917.

As you point out, given the details I know about my grandfather the man in the photograph shouldn't be him.

However I can't help thinking how unlikely it would be for Bernard to meet and photograph his doppelgänger !

I am convinced this is my grandfather but why would he be wearing that uniform ?

The soldier shown is a sergeant and with a curved shoulder title could not be RWF, whose title was those three letters, in capitals, topped by a grenade (as per my avatar).

On the visual evidence I cannot foresee any circumstances where he could be your grandfather.

[CGM]

For completeness THIS is a previous thread.