Highlanders In Flanders - Mix of Headdress

[gordon92]

Found this image that was labeled "Highlanders crossing a canal in Flanders." It depicts an interesting mix of headdress, some wearing glengarries and some with Balmorals.

What do you think is the probable date, and what is regimental affiliation?

Here are my thoughts: The mix of glengarries and Balmorals suggests early summer 1915. Balmorals were first issued Spring 1915 to replace glengarries. Tam O'Shanters began to replace Balmorals at end of 1915 into early 1916. This suggests a time early in the Balmoral issue cycle. Clues to regiment are sparse but seemingly present. Solid glengarries narrow regiment down to Black Watch, Cameron, and London Scottish among the kilted regiments. The closest man in the next to the rear rank has a substantial portion of his kilt exposed beneath the kilt cover. I think I see light vertical overstripes in the tartan. Thus, I am surmising Cameron Highlanders.

What do other members think?

[FROGSMILE]

I think Cameron's too and for the same reason. Note the junior officer marching at the front with his walking stick. It's an evocative image of the early war period.

[Steven Broomfield]

I could hazard a guess at the age of the bridge, if you like.

[gordon92]

I think Cameron's too and for the same reason. Note the junior officer marching at the front with his walking stick. It's an evocative image of the early war period.

That walking stick would would have been handy if attacked by rabbits. The white horse presented quite a target.

I could hazard a guess at the age of the bridge, if you like.

Yes, please do. I don't see any clues myself.

[gnr.ktrha]

Of course the plain glengarry could in fact be the war economy version issued without dicing. I understand they were on general issue to all Scottish regiments from the end of 1914 until sometime in mid to late 1915, when the original regimental pattern started to be issued again.

[4thGordons]

Of course the plain glengarry could in fact be the war economy version issued without dicing. I understand they were on general issue to all Scottish regiments from the end of 1914 until sometime in mid to late 1915, when the original regimental pattern started to be issued again.

Possibly later than that in some battalions I think, the 11th Gordons seem to have worn plain glens the whole time.

They have CLLEs so that probably means (as Western Front) that it is pre Spring of 1916)

Chris

[gordon92]

Of course the plain glengarry could in fact be the war economy version issued without dicing. I understand they were on general issue to all Scottish regiments from the end of 1914 until sometime in mid to late 1915, when the original regimental pattern started to be issued again.

Possibly later than that in some battalions I think, the 11th Gordons seem to have worn plain glens the whole time.

They have CLLEs so that probably means (as Western Front) that it is pre Spring of 1916)

Chris

Had not thought of the economy version glengarries. Good point. This would say that Seaforth and Gordon are also possibilities as well as Cameron. MacKenzie and Gordon tartans would have three horizontal light overstripes visible below the jacket skirt, and 79th tartan would show only two. The image resolution is not sufficient to differentiate, and my eyes are not good enough either. Anybody with better eyes want to take a look at this? Both the near men in second and fourth ranks have the sides of their kilts visible.

[Steven Broomfield]

Yes, please do. I don't see any clues myself.

Early 20th Century. If pressed, I'd say between 1901 and 1903.

[Derek Black]

Did you ever find out what regiment these men were from?

 

This photo appears in a 1916 edition of the Illustrated War news with (Crown Copyright).
As can be seen, most of the surrounding photos are captioned as being Seaforths, so likely them.

 

http://www.sleekburnprints.com/ekmps/shops/b3c706/images/1916-ww1-magazine-featuring-somme-advance-seaforth-highlander-canadians-la-boisselle-3010-1765-p.jpg

 

This bridge seems to be the same one and is captioned as being the 2nd Seaforths.

http://www.warfaremagazine.co.uk/articles/British-at-Mons-1914/187

Edited 28 February , 2018 by Derek Black

[4thGordons]

I have just realized this pic appears to be a Steroview card (possibly Underwood and Underwood?) they usually have a pretty detailed write up on the reverse. I also (somewhere) have an index with titles. Does anyone have the original card?

Chris

[Derek Black]

1 hour ago, 4thGordons said:

I have just realized this pic appears to be a Steroview card (possibly Underwood and Underwood?) they usually have a pretty detailed write up on the reverse. I also (somewhere) have an index with titles. Does anyone have the original card?

Chris

 

National Galleries of Scotland have the full card to view here, it has a high level scan and zoom option.

 

Full title - "Highlanders off to the trenches, crossing a Flanders Canal"

 

https://www.nationalgalleries.org/art-and-artists/80969/highlanders-trenches-crossing-flanders-canal

 

They have a selection of these, author given as "Realistic Travels"

 

https://www.nationalgalleries.org/search/artist/realistic-travels-publishers

Edited 1 March , 2018 by Derek Black

[4thGordons]

Thanks. Unfortunately they do not have a scan (at least that I could find) of the reverse where the description is usually found. (although I am not certain this issue of cards has a detailed inscription)

Chris

 

[Steven Broomfield]

Derek - thanks for the link. Fascinating set of pictures.

[gordon92]

4 hours ago, Derek Black said:

National Galleries of Scotland have the full card to view here, it has a high level scan and zoom option.

 

Full title - "Highlanders off to the trenches, crossing a Flanders Canal"

 

https://www.nationalgalleries.org/art-and-artists/80969/highlanders-trenches-crossing-flanders-canal

 

They have a selection of these, author given as "Realistic Travels"

 

https://www.nationalgalleries.org/search/artist/realistic-travels-publishers

Edited 3 hours ago by Derek Black

 

21 hours ago, Derek Black said:

Did you ever find out what regiment these men were from?

 

This photo appears in a 1916 edition of the Illustrated War news with (Crown Copyright).
As can be seen, most of the surrounding photos are captioned as being Seaforths, so likely them.

 

http://www.sleekburnprints.com/ekmps/shops/b3c706/images/1916-ww1-magazine-featuring-somme-advance-seaforth-highlander-canadians-la-boisselle-3010-1765-p.jpg

 

This bridge seems to be the same one and is captioned as being the 2nd Seaforths.

http://www.warfaremagazine.co.uk/articles/British-at-Mons-1914/187

Edited 20 hours ago by Derek Black

 

I think we can now say thanks to Derek's research that the group in the original picture are Seaforth.  Using the zoom from one of Derek's links, I can see the box pleating on the kilts which definitely points toward either Seaforth or Cameron (for all ranks below Corporal) especially since it was previously established that simplified solid glengarries could have been worn by the Seaforth instead of the tradition diced version.  The cross stripes on the kilts of the Camerons likely would have been masked by orthochromatic photography.

[FROGSMILE]

On 01/03/2018 at 21:16, gordon92 said:

 

 

I think we can now say thanks to Derek's research that the group in the original picture are Seaforth.  Using the zoom from one of Derek's links, I can see the box pleating on the kilts which definitely points toward either Seaforth or Cameron (for all ranks below Corporal) especially since it was previously established that simplified solid glengarries could have been worn by the Seaforth instead of the tradition diced version.  The cross stripes on the kilts of the Camerons likely would have been masked by orthochromatic photography.

 

Just goes to show that this forum will invariably come up with an accurate answer even if it’s years later!

Edited 3 March , 2018 by FROGSMILE