Captain Alfred William Will M.C.

[AlasdairW]

I am currently researching my Great Uncle Alfred Will and plan to research his brothers soon.

I am fairly new at military service research and yet to send off for his Service records but have contacted the Red Cross archives for any info they may have, the RAMC museum appear to be very busy with requests and have suspended any further requests for now, I have checked Du Rugivny's roll and read a couple of books linked to the SPR and referenced in older GWF posts, I would be very grateful for ideas on how to expand on this information that I may have missed.

I have attached links for a few photographs one of which is a Christmas card from Persia to one of my other Great Uncles William Anderson Will (Seaforth Highlanders 566733),

Does anyone have any guesses on the ribbon bar worn by Alfred in these pictures?, I appreciate they aren't the best of scans.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/91804549@N02/16949795502/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/91804549@N02/16764895779/in/photostream/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/91804549@N02/16764899289/in/photostream/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/91804549@N02/16764899619/in/photostream/

[AlasdairW]

Captain Alfred William Will

Rank: Captain (Local Rank), Temporary Lieutenant

Unit: Special List (Interpreter) attached South Persia Rifles

Died: Killed by mutinous troops 25.5.18 Khaneh Zinian, South Persia with Sergeant Coomber 9162 Royal Sussex Regiment.

Age: 27

Parents: Alexander and Barbara McRobbie Will of the Howe, Tulloch, Bonar-Bridge

Spouse: Marion (Sutherland) Will of Pitfure, Rogart

Children: Alfred Had a daughter Margaret Olive Will who he tragically never met due to his untimely death.

Born: Brora 30.4.1893

Home: Police Office, Rogart

Occupation: Police Constable on enlistment (Retired from police June 1915). Male Nurse on commission

Enlisted: Dornoch 29.6.15 in R.A.M.C

Overseas: France 4.9.15 To No.3 Casualty Clearing Station

Commissioned: Applied 4.16 for commission in 7th Seaforths. To UK for training 4.11.16. Commissioned 1.3.17 as 2/Lt Special List (Interpreter). To S.Persian Rifles 26.6.17

Medals awarded: Served with British Red Cross in Serbia as a male nurse prior to Police Service and WW1 and was awarded the Red Cross Medal 1st Class with Balkan Bar

Notes: Formerly 1st SHRV and 5th Seaforth Highlanders 1909-1911

Military Cross citation: " for gallantry and able leadership on the 10th and 16th may 1918, and by his example he held Khaneh Zinian fort against superior numbers of well armed tribesmen from 18th to 25th may. this officer had previously been wounded 5 times in france "

Buried: Shiraz British Cemetery, Shiraz, Iran on 15.8.18 (Body recovered 13.8.19 now Tehran War Cemetery I.F.3 Joint Grave.

Memorials: Listed on the Rogart War Memorial, as Persian Rifles, and the Ardgay (Creich) War Memorial as a Seaforth Highlander.

[Old Owl]

Hi Alasdair,

The medal ribbon is undoubtedly that of the Military Cross.

Hope this helps.

Robert

[Old Owl]

Alasdair,

It would seem that reading his biographical notes he was not awarded the M.C. until after his death and although the citation clearly relates to an incident prior to his death, so it would seem that the award was made posthumously. It is therefore quite possible that the M.C. ribbon which appears in the two photos was added to the photos following his death.

I doubt that the Red Cross medal to which you refer could be worn on a military uniform--but then I could be wrong?

His service record should exist at the National Archives which should give you further details regarding his wartime career.

You need to make a visit to the N.A. or alternatively employ a researcher to see what is available there. Hopefully some kind person may be able to fill more gaps for you from within the Forum.

Robert

[kenf48]

The revised Regulations for the wearing of Red Cross Medals was set out in the LG dated 21 September 1915 https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/29304/page/9321

the original entry dated May 1914 did not allow medals issued by private societies to be worn (para. 13) https://www.thegazette.co.uk/Edinburgh/issue/12672/page/608

seems it was retrospective though once authority was given no doubt those who had been awarded the decoration wore it.

So given the date of the photograph (27/3/1917) I'd suggest it is his Red Cross Medal.

Although quality not brilliant it does appear similar to the riband shown here http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/20807/lot/90/ which in the context of a b/w photo is similar to the MC though the central (blue) band of the latter is wider than the red band.

I know photos can be doctored but both of them?

Another Gazette entry (for 1920) shows the order of precedence though it describes the Royal Red Cross (Class1) accorded precedence over the MC;

not being a medal expert don't know if that's the same decoration as the one previously referred to.

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/Edinburgh/issue/13701/page/669

I assume you've seen this which places the mutiny resulting in his death in context http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/south-persia-rifles-militia

You also mention previous links you've read guessing that includes Skinner's memoir and F. Safiri's PhD thesis neither of which mention the incident.

Ken

[AlasdairW]

Thanks Ols Owl,

Yes found the Iranicaonline site during one of my random searches, its amazing what you can find on the tinternet,

I had no idea that other medals could have been worn until then, I always assumed non military medals was a big no go.

The photographs have remained in the family line, I doubt very much that there would have been any tampering with them,

I was aware that the M.C. wasnt awarded until after Alfred thats why I was wondering what the ribbon was in the photographs, I plan to visit my father soon so will try and get some pictures of his medals, ribbons and memorial plaque.

I will share them if I have any joy finding them.

Alasdair

[AlasdairW]

http://wiki.fibis.org/index.php/South_Persia_Rifles[/url]

Yes I found F. Safiri's thesis and the John Skinners memiors.

This gives a little more additional information on the incident involving his death but a few more interesting snippets on the regiment.

[Old Owl]

The revised Regulations for the wearing of Red Cross Medals was set out in the LG dated 21 September 1915 https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/29304/page/9321

the original entry dated May 1914 did not allow medals issued by private societies to be worn (para. 13) https://www.thegazette.co.uk/Edinburgh/issue/12672/page/608

seems it was retrospective though once authority was given no doubt those who had been awarded the decoration wore it.

So given the date of the photograph (27/3/1917) I'd suggest it is his Red Cross Medal.

Although quality not brilliant it does appear similar to the riband shown here http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/20807/lot/90/ which in the context of a b/w photo is similar to the MC though the central (blue) band of the latter is wider than the red band.

I know photos can be doctored but both of them?

Another Gazette entry (for 1920) shows the order of precedence though it describes the Royal Red Cross (Class1) accorded precedence over the MC;

not being a medal expert don't know if that's the same decoration as the one previously referred to.

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/Edinburgh/issue/13701/page/669

I assume you've seen this which places the mutiny resulting in his death in context http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/south-persia-rifles-militia

You also mention previous links you've read guessing that includes Skinner's memoir and F. Safiri's PhD thesis neither of which mention the incident.

Ken

The revised Regulations for the wearing of Red Cross Medals was set out in the LG dated 21 September 1915 https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/29304/page/9321

the original entry dated May 1914 did not allow medals issued by private societies to be worn (para. 13) https://www.thegazette.co.uk/Edinburgh/issue/12672/page/608

seems it was retrospective though once authority was given no doubt those who had been awarded the decoration wore it.

So given the date of the photograph (27/3/1917) I'd suggest it is his Red Cross Medal.

Although quality not brilliant it does appear similar to the riband shown here http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/20807/lot/90/ which in the context of a b/w photo is similar to the MC though the central (blue) band of the latter is wider than the red band.

I know photos can be doctored but both of them?

Another Gazette entry (for 1920) shows the order of precedence though it describes the Royal Red Cross (Class1) accorded precedence over the MC;

not being a medal expert don't know if that's the same decoration as the one previously referred to.

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/Edinburgh/issue/13701/page/669

I assume you've seen this which places the mutiny resulting in his death in context http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/south-persia-rifles-militia

You also mention previous links you've read guessing that includes Skinner's memoir and F. Safiri's PhD thesis neither of which mention the incident.

Ken

The central stripe of the MC is actually purple and I think that it is quite possible that both photos would have been 'doctored' by a photographer through the family to show his MC. The central stripe shown in the photos is way too wide for the Red Cross Medal.

Purely my own opinion of course.

Robert

[AlasdairW]

The photograph was taken on and recorded as the same date of Alfred's wedding day, these pictures migrated with family to USA in 1925, it was never altered, I now since obtained further images through other branches of the family, different pictures but also with the ribbon.

Edited 11 December , 2017 by AlasdairW
Update