342 and152 Siege Batteries Royal Garrison Artillery

[chanticleer]

This is my first attampt to obtain information on this site.

I have obtained the Medal Card and matching Medal and Award Roll for my Father: Gunner Herbert William Cox No 94622.

The Medal Card shows he served in the 152 Battery and the Award Roll shows he served in the 342 Battery. Can any one help me decypher this data and help me pursue further information of hi service. Date of conscription, where served etc ?

I am very new to this type of investigation and would appreciate any help,

chanticleer

[sotonmate]

chanticleer

Welcome to the Forum !

The Medal Card reference to 152 is to the original Medal Roll. The RGA numbered all of it's Roll pages and page 152 happens to contain your Father's medal issues. You have seen this page as it does refer to his presence with 342 Battery. He seems to have entered a war zone after 1915 (in the absence of the issue of a 1914-1915 Star) and it may be possible for the RGA buffs among us to give you an idea of an enlistment date from the number 94622.

342 Battery may have a War Diary at the National Archives which would help you to see what they were doing,though a listing here in the Long Long Trail (top left of this page) doesn't include that unit. Again,one of the buffs may be able to help.

[rflory]

Unfortunately The National Archives does not hold a war diary for 342nd Siege Battery, RGA. You will have to consult the war diaries of the Heavy Artillery Groups (HAGs) to which the Battery was attached to find any information concerning the Battery:

63rd HAG from 21 Jun 17 to 7 Oct 17

15th HAG from 7 Oct 17 to 1 Dec 17

64th HAG from 1 Dec 17 to 3 Dec 17

X Corps Heavy Artillery from 3 Dec 17 to 25 Dec 17

60th HAG from 25 Dec 17 till the end of the war

[chanticleer]

Thanks " Sotonmate"

I now have enlistment dates and Depots, thanks to " Kevron "

And thanks " Rflory" for your information, am still struggling with that.

[kevinrowlinson]

Do you have any photos of your father in uniform, or battery, during the war? I ask because his enlistment time would normally mean he would have gone out with an earlier battery.

If you want to get a basic understanding of the RGA then have a read of http://www.archive.org/stream/makingofgunner00streiala/makingofgunner00streiala_djvu.txt .

Kevin

[chanticleer]

Than you for all your help to date

To further clarify my search

. We do not have photographs of my father in battle fatigue, he was a very quiet man and never talked about his experiences in WW1. We only really know that he served in the RGA and was in combat.

We are pursuing this history rather late in my life at the request of my Grandsons.

All soldier searches directed us to Ancestry.com and extensive research there turned up this most likely candidate ( the data seemed to fit ). My father was born in August 1884 and returned to England from Australia in June 1915. Missing, however from all the data uncovered to date, are the birth date and place, the presence of which would serve to confirm that we have really uncovered his war history

We know that a lot of WW1 records were lost in WW2 which makes any research difficult, so we seek you experienced guidance to further this search.

Coincidently I served in The Regiment in WW2.

Thank You

[Derek Black]

Hi Chanticleer,

I'd love to ask you about your WW2 service, but we're on the wrong forum! I'll still say a wee "thank you" though.

Back on topic....

Local newspapers can be a great source of information. The British Newspaper Archive have many newspapers scanned and searchable.

Where was your father from, or where did his family reside during the war? There could be wounding notices, letters published or muster rolls to find more info from.

Cheers,
Derek.

[kevinrowlinson]

The reason I asked whether there was a photo was just in case he was wearing any trade or proficiency badges that may indicate if he had a particular skill. As I said his noted battery on the rolls is rather late considering his enlistment date which may indicate he went for training in a particular trade such as signalling.

Although I believe you that his number was 94622 there are 3 other gunners who served overseas who did not have/use a second name and it is quite common for men when attesting not to give one. Unless you know if he had had pre war service, there is only one that may be another possible contender. Obviously if you have his medals then you can obviously verify it from the engraving on the rims.

Known details about 94622; almost certainly conscripted/mobilised at the start of June 1916 and was first posted to No. 4 Depot, Gt. Yarmouth, walking into the depot a day either side of the 7th June. The artillery barracks are the ones on the left, in front of the gasometer and not the larger looking one which was a naval hospital, in this photo http://www.britainfromabove.org.uk/image/epw008064?search=great%20yarmouth&ref=35 . He may well have attested as early as the start of Nov. 1915 under the Derby Scheme and was put on reserve before being called.

I have 342 SB being formed at Weymouth from the 6th Jan. 1917 and after training leaving Southampton on the 29th May 1917, and disembarking Le Havre the following day. It was a 4 x 6 inch (26 cwt) battery.

At various times all the batteries came under the control of HAGs/Brigades and in the absence of battery diaries it is these that you need to view to find out where they were and what they were up to. Dick has listed these, for the particular times the battery was with them, and one would have to visit the Nat. Archives to view them, or wait until they are available on line.

The references you would need are;

63 HAG WO 95/395

15 HAG WO 95/4205

64 HAG WO 95/227

X Corps Heavy Art WO 95/867 (needs confirmation)

60 HAG WO 95/395

I see there is a birth registration for a William Walter Cox for quarter Dec. 1884 for Romford district. The reference for this, if you decide to try and obtain this birth certificate, is 4a 332.

Kevin

[ororkep]

Chanticleer,

Is your Cox of 2 Wellington street Syston, Leicestershire?

Possibly a more detailed source of information on your battery of interest is held by the Imperial War Museum within the IWM collections; their internal reference 11548. This is a 151 page transcript diary by a 342 SB Officer that covers much of their activity on the Western Front and some of the battery training prior to embarkation on a more day by day basis, namely the diary of one Captain E. J. Ruffell. It is an avenue of research well worth pursuing though you would have to view it in person as it is not available online.

Rgds

Paul

P.S. It might not be a bad idea to delete the 152 reference from your forum thread heading.

[chanticleer]

Thank you Derek

I will try that

Thank you Orokep

My Grandfather and family resided in Syston, although I am not sure which street it was. Of course I am interested in how that location was uncovered by you, perhaps you could enlighten me. I am unable to access the records at the Museum in person since I reside in the US. I will delet the 152 reference, I just could not read a Medal Card.

Thank you Kevrov

You have so much detailed information it blows my mind.

I also uncovered three other candidates named Herbert ( no middle name ) in the RGA No. 178028; No. 36001; and No; 195898 but Herbert: No. 94622 was the only one named Herbert William.

My father usually added the W to his name in signed documents

He had no prewar experience and I do not have any medals, althoughn I will ask within the family

I did find a severely damaged Attestation Document for a Herbert ( no middle name ) born in 1884 but all the birth information ( date/place ) was missing and the reported age was incorrect

What is the Derby Scheme?

Finding this site has been amazing to me, just how willing everyone has been to provide help and in such a rapid way. For that i am extremelly grateful.

[Derek Black]

What is the Derby Scheme?

From the mother site of this forum.

Derby Scheme

[ororkep]

Chanticleer,

Then you will be reassured to know you have the correct ancestor in Gnr 94622 Herbert William Cox, as he is recorded living at the address I previously mentioned, on the 1919 Leicester AVL (Absent Voters List), along with his younger brother, Albert Edw Cox, who also served in the RGA (Service no 64364, Signaller). It should be easy for you now to trace the family on Ancestry in the 1901 census.

Rgds

Paul

[kevinrowlinson]

As they came from Leicestershire then the reference for the birth cert. above is wrong.

Two possibles

Herbert William Cox quarter Sept. 1884 Loughborough 7a 152

and one registered Herbert Cox for the same quarter Rugby 6d 519.

On the census there are two showing as Herbert W but would suggest the Loughborough one is more likely as that is the birthplace given for your father in 1911.

I notice that your grandfather was a signalman on the railways, and later Albert also in 1911 so not surprising he became a signaller.

Kevin

[chanticleer]

Thanks Derek

A great link

Hi Paul & Kevin

My Dad was born 19th August 1884 in Loughborough and lived in Syston until he was a young man. He emigrated with his brother Ernest to Australia in 1912. My Grandfather was indeed a Railway Signalman, I met him as a young child. Younger brother Albert, we were told, was seriously wounded in combat in WW1, but we did not how, when or where.

Having cleared that up; the one niggling concern I have is : how does one arrive at a Regimental Nuumber without such documentation as an Attestation or equivalent ?

Or maybe in my ignorance that verifying information is there.

Again I want to thank every who has joined in this search

Regards

Bill

[kevinrowlinson]

Missing, however from all the data uncovered to date, are the birth date and place, the presence of which would serve to confirm that we have really uncovered his war history

My Dad was born 19th August 1884 in Loughborough and lived in Syston until he was a young man.

Having cleared that up; the one niggling concern I have is : how does one arrive at a Regimental Nuumber without such documentation as an Attestation or equivalent ?

Bill,

Without Paul's database you probably wouldn't confirm his service number but fortunately he has given you the details from the AVL which you could obtain if you wished.

I would add that the majority of gunners served with more than one battery. Given you are fortunate enough to have a named battery then obviously this is the one you should research, but I would suggest that it may be possible he served with at least one more.

Kevin

[chanticleer]

Hi Paul and Kevin

I must apologise for questioning your conclusions, I was totally unaware of an Absent Voters List and its contents. A Google search enlightened me. Now as you suggested I can concentrate on 342 Siege Battery if I choose to continue

Thanks

[Adam Llewellyn]

Hello Bill,

I can let you have the original image of the AVL if it would be of any use to you?

Regards.

Llew.

[chanticleer]

Hello Llew

I would really appreciate that. Thank you

Bill