Northamptonshire regiment at Ypres?

[Ascent]

Hopefully some members here will be able to help me.

My great grandfather fought in the Northamptonshire regiment in the great war. I don't know what battalion he was in but am told he fought and was gassed at Ypres. He survived the war and died in the 1980's but shook badly for the rest of his life.

Does anyone know what Northamptonshire battalions fought in the Ypres area? It might not have been 1917 but would be unlikely to be earlier. He joined at 16 after the war started so I think would be unlikely to be out there much earlier.

He was an Essex boy so it seems unusual that he should join Northamptonshires but possibly he thought he might not have his age questioned away from where he was known?

I am hoping to do some more research on him once I get his service number from my dad who has his medals somewhere.

[Michelle Young]

His name would be a good starting point. Not unusual to be in the Northants, men were posted to whatever regiment that needed men.

Michelle

[Ascent]

His name was Edward Marshall. I will be using the standard resources for his record but was interested in which Northants units may have fought in that area.

[Michelle Young]

Steve Beeby is the resident Northants expert, he's busy this weekend but hopefully he will pick up on this one. There is an Edward Marshall and and Edward M Marshall in the medal index cards both Northants and Labour Corps, but no btn, which is quite usual

Michelle

[Stebie9173]

Both Edward Marshalls noted in the Northamptonshire Regiment were in Infantry Labour Companies. These were not standard Infantry battalions per se, and many members of these units were sent overseas within three weeks of joining with only very basic military training. They were used for labouring behind the lines (at varying distances) and were not expected ever to pick up a rifle though some units were caught up in the German offensives of March, April and May 1918.

Edward M Marshall was Edward Mackenzie Marshall, No. 34054 in the 3rd Infantry Labour Company Northamptonshire Regiment and later 84279 in the 141st Company Labour Corps.

Edward Marshall was No. 38461 in the 13th Infantry Labour Company Northamptonshire Regiment and 90311 in the 151st Company Labour Corps

Neither Company has a war diary. Both Companies were raised in March 1917 and went to France in either April or May 1917, being "converted" to Labour Corps companies in May 1917.

The Edward Marshall with no middle name was a painter (or possibly a printer) and lived at 157 Chatsworth Road, Clapton Park NE. His next of kin was his mother Emily Marshall. He initially volunteered under the Derby Scheme in February 1916 (aged 18 years and 7 months - born about 1897) and was mobilised in March 1917 being sent to France on 30 March 1917. By 1920 he lived at 110 Landsdowne Road, Dalston. He transferred to 858 Area Employment Company in May 1918 and to 861 Area Employment Company in June 1919. He was demobilised in early December 1919 and transferred to Class "Z" Army Reserve on 31-12-1919. He was of medical category "B3" by the time of discharge. He has a service record on Ancestry and/or FindmyPast.

Category B Medical grade was as follows:

B - Free from serious organic diseases, able to stand service on lines of communication in France, or in garrisons in the tropics.

Subcategories:

B1 - Able to march 5 miles, see to shoot with glasses, and hear well

B2 - Able to walk 5 miles, see and hear sufficiently for ordinary purposes

B3 - Only suitable for sedentary work

This Edward Marshall was mobilised in both July and September 1916 but reposted to Reserve both times. This looks like it was due to him being below height standard - he was 4 feet 11 and a half inches tall - three and a bit inches below the minimum. He was hospitalised with fever in both April and May 1918 and posted to the 1st Transport Stores Royal Engineers in 18-5-1918 upon posting to 858 Area Employment Company, and remained with them upon posting to 861 Company (presumably a different company took over in that area - which seems to be at Audruicq between Calais and St Omer. His hospitalisation in April 1918 was to the 96th Field Ambulance which would mean that he was fairly close to the front line in the area of the river Lys around Estaires and Hazebrouck.

His age at enlistment ties in with a date of birth in July 1897. He also declared his age as exactly 19 years in July 1916. There was an Edward Marshall who died in Chelmsford, Essex in about September 1980 whose date of birth was 16 July 1897 according to the Death Registers so this would actually fit exactly, but I am guessing now!

Edward Mackenzie Marshall seems to have been born at New Brompton in Kent about 1883, lived at Gillingham in 1901 and 1911, was married to Catherine Eliza Hinkley in 1911, lived at Tottenham/Islington in the 1930s and died at Hornchurch in Essex in 1962. There doesn't seem to be a service record for him.

Steve.

[Ascent]

Wow, thank you. The Edward Marshall that died in 1980 was my great grandfather. His height matches and he was a London man so the location matches. Family lore says he lied about his age and joined up at 16 but I've always wondered about that as he had a younger brother,Herbert, who was killed during the war.

Unfortunately the generation after his has passed as well so all information is now second and third hand.

[Stebie9173]

I have edited my post above as I went along so it may be worth re-reading.

The "fever" entries in April/May 1918 COULD be attributable to gassing and it does seem like his Company was in the forward / danger areas around the Lys in April 1918 during the German offensives during which time almost everyone was expected to pick up a rifle and hold the line, but we probably can't be sure from his records. As I mentioned, he wasn't a front line infantryman (probably solely because of his height) but he obviously didn't have anything else that the military could reject him for medically according to his papers. He may have been employed in a variety of ways during late 1917 but it seems likely that he was employed in stores after his illness in April / May 1918 which may have bumped his medical grade down a notch or two for purposes of allocation to types of unit.

Steve.

[Ascent]

After talking with my dad we're convinced that's him. So many things fit.

He was a painter and decorator for the council after the war, he was a very short man, he was a London man, the age looks right notwithstanding family lore, and the medical category would be right for someone who shook very badly.

I wasn't looking for his actual details here, just where he may have fought but you have done a wonderful job without me asking. Thank you so much, knowing these details means a lot to us.

[Stebie9173]

It looks like there were another two brothers killed in addition to Herbert:

MARSHALL, HERBERT

Rank:Gunner

Service No:10541

Date of Death:28/04/1915

Age:26

Regiment/Service:Royal Field Artillery 133rd Bty.

Panel Reference: Panel 5 and 9.

Memorial:YPRES (MENIN GATE) MEMORIAL

Additional Information: Son of Mr. F. H. and Mrs. E. Marshall, of 110, Lansdowne Rd., London Fields, Hackney, London. One of three Brothers who fell.

http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/906035/MARSHALL,%20HERBERT

From Soldiers Died:

Birth Place: Hackney, N.e.

Enlistment Place: Stratford, E.

Type of Casualty: Killed in action

One of the other brothers:

MARSHALL, George Henry

Rank:Rifleman

Service No:601497

Date of Death:13/12/1918

Age:19

Regiment/Service:London Regiment (London Irish Rifles) 1st/18th Bn.

Grave Reference: XII. C. 34.

Cemetery:TERLINCTHUN BRITISH CEMETERY, WIMILLE

Additional Information: Son of Frederick H. and Emily Marshall, of 110, Lansdowne Rd., London Fields, Hackney, London.

http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/4026413/MARSHALL,%20G%20H

He served in France from 15 October 1918 according to his medal roll.

The register of soldiers effects shows that he died of Sickness, so may have been a victim of the Spanish Flu.

Steve.

[Ascent]

We knew he lost several brothers during the war. Family lore says six but that has also never seemed right to me.

We thought Herbert was the youngest but looks like he was older and George was the younger.

My dad has Herbert's memorial plaque and it's interesting to see he's on the Menin gate as we're visiting Ypres in June.

This is much more then I ever expected, I'm running out of ways to say thank you.

[Stebie9173]

Ah, my apologies. I have just realised that I divided 96 by 3 and came up with 31 rather than 32! (And thus given you the location of 31st Division rather than 32nd Division in April 1918). Oops.

32nd Division (to whom 96 Field Ambulance were attached) were in the area of Arras in very early April and then at the river Ancre near Albert on the Somme and not at the river Lys as I mentioned above!

What looks like the 43rd Casualty Clearing Station is also mentioned on his record (following his admission to 96 Field Ambulance) that fits much better with the Arras area than the Lys! 43 C.C.S. were based at Boisleux-au-Mont south of Arras up to March 1918 and then at Bac-du-Sud near Bailleulval, south-west of Arras, later that month (presumably after withdrawing in the face of the German attacks).

Steve