horrocks Posted 14 April , 2015 Share Posted 14 April , 2015 I noticed recently that there is a substantial extension being excavated behind the centre. The recent high winds blew the safety barrier down, exposing a large hole, now lined out.. Was there an archaeological investigation beforeheand? I notice some mangled steelwork immediately behind the window. The piles of spoil in the copse beyond appear to be pure clay, but there is a lot of it, and much of it concealed beneath the pile. I recall that the original site underwent a detailed archaeological survey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 14 April , 2015 Share Posted 14 April , 2015 ...The recent high winds blew the safety barrier down... Sounds like the perfect definition of an oxymoron... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtisGalbraith Posted 26 April , 2015 Share Posted 26 April , 2015 I noticed recently that there is a substantial extension being excavated behind the centre. The recent high winds blew the safety barrier down, exposing a large hole, now lined out.. Was there an archaeological investigation beforeheand? I notice some mangled steelwork immediately behind the window. The piles of spoil in the copse beyond appear to be pure clay, but there is a lot of it, and much of it concealed beneath the pile. I recall that the original site underwent a detailed archaeological survey. I spoke to a visitor centre staff member on Friday. They said it's a significant extension designed to 'enhance' (my word not theirs) the the experience of visitors as we approach the Centenary. I asked whether archeological work had been done and was told that the work had discovered nothing. I'm surprised by that and also somewhat alarmed (see my later post on Serre) that the battlefields of the Somme are gearing up to move even further towards overt tourism. I miss the quiet, contemplative days..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug504 Posted 28 April , 2015 Share Posted 28 April , 2015 I spoke to a visitor centre staff member on Friday. They said it's a significant extension designed to 'enhance' (my word not theirs) the the experience of visitors as we approach the Centenary. I asked whether archeological work had been done and was told that the work had discovered nothing. I'm surprised by that and also somewhat alarmed (see my later post on Serre) that the battlefields of the Somme are gearing up to move even further towards overt tourism. I miss the quiet, contemplative days..... I think we all knew what would happen during the centenary and no doubt all will return to relative "peace and quiet" after the centenary "celebrations", (always had my doubts about using this term in this context). From an environmental point of view, this "honey pot" strategy of visitor management is used in many of our own National Parks. Those less inclined to visit the more "out of the way" sites or dare I say it off the "tourist route" are restricted to a minority of sites minimising the visitor impact over the majority of the area. Thiepval certainly fits the criteria of such a centre. Those willing to do their own research will still find those many and varied "quiet and contemplative" areas, particularly outside the "tourist season". Doug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 28 April , 2015 Share Posted 28 April , 2015 Thiepval has space and an accessible central location, so there will always be pressure for 'development'. Why does the excavation behind the Visitor Centre look more like the site for a pond (sloping sides) than the footings of a new building? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelcave Posted 28 April , 2015 Share Posted 28 April , 2015 As I understand it, the extension is going to be largely (entirely?) below ground level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 29 April , 2015 Share Posted 29 April , 2015 Thanks, Nigel. In that case, though, I would expect the hole to be deeper ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitchener's Bugle Posted 29 April , 2015 Share Posted 29 April , 2015 Maybe its a Trench system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanA Posted 30 April , 2015 Share Posted 30 April , 2015 This doesn't bother me - I would never go to Thiepval for quiet contemplation. Try Frankfurt Trench or Grandcourt Road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 30 April , 2015 Share Posted 30 April , 2015 Thiepval Visitor Centre = handy loos (and a "My Last Duchess" type pause to admire my name on the window) Hopefully loos will be further enhanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 30 April , 2015 Share Posted 30 April , 2015 Not only does the Visitor Centre have some of the best loos on the Somme, but sandwiches etc from its vending machines have frequently saved the day when nothing else was available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanA Posted 30 April , 2015 Share Posted 30 April , 2015 How are the loos at Loos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 1 May , 2015 Share Posted 1 May , 2015 How are the loos at Loos? Over cleaned? Strange smell of chlorine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanA Posted 1 May , 2015 Share Posted 1 May , 2015 Over cleaned? Strange smell of chlorine. Be a brick and light a gasper - I want to see which way the wind is blowing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithfazzani Posted 1 May , 2015 Share Posted 1 May , 2015 I have just spent a week on the Somme. I spent hours around High Wood, Morval and then the Regina Trench area I never saw another human being, there is plenty of contemplative space left on the Somme. Yes, when I returned to the Thiepval area mainly to find a sandwich for lunch it was heaving. So each to their own really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petroc Posted 1 May , 2015 Share Posted 1 May , 2015 No criticism of your post (15) but 'heaving'....why not? The memorial was built to be seen and visited Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithfazzani Posted 1 May , 2015 Share Posted 1 May , 2015 Why not indeed? I didn't think that heaving is a derogatory term it simply means crowded in my language. I was simply pointing out that there is plenty of space for all interests and that there is peace and quite, indeed solitude, still to be found on the Somme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterhogg Posted 1 May , 2015 Share Posted 1 May , 2015 Be a brick and light a gasper - I want to see which way the wind is blowing. And so pee on your handkerchief before using the toilet? : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beselare Posted 2 May , 2015 Share Posted 2 May , 2015 Last week I spoke to a member of staff about the 'hole'. She told me that it was going to be a museum and would be "ready in time for the anniversary next year". Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Brown Posted 19 May , 2015 Share Posted 19 May , 2015 Hello all It's been a while. There was absolutely no archaeological work carried out before the original works to build the visitor centre despite significant lobbying by me, David Kenyon etc. We were told the site was utterly pulverised and nothing would survive (where have you heard THAT before?). When we looked through a gap in the fence we clearly saw that the cuts of trenches visible in the chalk sections or foundation trenches. I don't blame the French, that was then and at that time Conflict Archaeology was new and misunderstood by many (Alain Jacques being a notable exception). However, the great and the good saw no need to investigate the site for either the works yard for the memorial or the battlefield. What happened this time, I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 21 May , 2015 Share Posted 21 May , 2015 What happened this time, I don't know. It seems a great shame to lose such an opportunity given that the excavations will be ongoing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Filsell Posted 21 May , 2015 Share Posted 21 May , 2015 "There was absolutely no archaeological work carried out before the original works to build the visitor centre" As ever I stand to be corrected but that certainly is not how the situation in regard to the new building was described to me by a prominent military historian who lives in the area. I understand nothing of any value was uncovered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frajohn Posted 21 May , 2015 Share Posted 21 May , 2015 The link below should give you a document detailing the excavations which took place during the construction of the existing visitor centre. The report is from the Durand Group. :-) Kind regards John http://www.thiepval.org.uk/ThiepvalVisitorCentreReportonExcavations.doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Filsell Posted 21 May , 2015 Share Posted 21 May , 2015 Why is it that events like this create so much heat and little illumination? It seems pretty conclusive. There was a survey! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horrocks Posted 22 May , 2015 Author Share Posted 22 May , 2015 Why is it that events like this create so much heat and little illumination? It seems pretty conclusive. There was a survey! There was a survey for the original visitor centre, of which I for one have long been aware. However, my original post regarded the recent excavations for the new museum. I have to say that I did look over the spoil, and it appeared as far as you could see to be largely virgin clay. Some steel reinforcement items, perhaps pieces of railtrack, are visible in the photo and had been set aside. If you look at trench maps of the area they show, as far as I am aware, only one communication trench which ran through the north-west corner of the current and earlier excavation. I recall that the Durand report also states that they concluded that the area had been pretty much cleared during the building work for the Thiepval Memorial. There were some backfilled sumps or entrances. I noticed that the house behind the site, which is presumably that of the Memorial manager, also has a large underground garage which must have involved extensive excavations when it was built. The trench would have run through that area too, and right across the visitor centre car park. An aside. There is a widely held belief that Thiepval Chateau stood on or near the position of the memorial. It didn't - it seems evident to me that it covered the position of the farm buildings across the road, beyond and behind the 18th Division memorial.It had a large loop or carriage drive that ran down towards Thiepval Wood, reaching I think almost as far as the British trenches. There is some speculation that some outbuildings or stables stood upon the site of the visitor centre. The original study did find evidence of a wall or entrance gate here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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