BEF 1914-1915: Gunners.

[Guest]

Hello. I have been inspired by another thread to dig a bit deeper into the Royal Artillery. There are a few areas of immediate curiosity;

1. Ammunition Shortages. I wonder if anyone can point me to any definitive study of the artillery ammunition shortages in 1914-15. I have Statistics of the Military Effort of the British Empire (SMEBE) and the relevant volumes of the History of the Ministry of Munitions (HOMOM) . I have 'Firepower' by Bidwell and Graham which touches on the subject. Ditto the OH France & Belgium 1914 Vols I & II and OH France & Belgium 1915 Vols I & II which mention some of the shortages. I also have 'Artillery in the Great War' by Strong and Marble. Given the broad nature of the books, none really dig very deep into the shortages in any detail. I am looking for an informed study of this subject and any anecdotal evidence - histories, diaries etc - that might illustrate some of the acute shortages during this period and the impact this might have had at the tactical level. I recall reading in an infantry battalion diary that the supporting RFA in late 1914 were reduced to single numbers of shells per day at one point. For the life of me I can not find the quote(s). Any pointers would be very gratefully received.

If there are any Gunners out there who know the exact scales of ammunition with the RFA Brigades and in the Ammunition Columns per War Establishment and the reserve ammunition, that too would be very welcome. SMEBE has some stats which are not particularly clear.

2. Technology. I would also be interested in any study on technological developments, particularly types of fuses, propellants and explosives. The HOMOM has lots of technical stuff but I am interested in what the differences were at the sharp end.

3. Gunner Orbats. Lastly, is there a decent publication that outlines every RFA and RGA Brigade and Battery - types of guns etc. My only sources on this are the OH (not particularly helpful in the detail) and the Orders of Battle (I don't own the one for Regular Divisions yet). The reason I ask is that I had though each Brigade was equipped with one type of gun. Some recent research suggests the batteries often had different types of gun. I am also interested to understand if the TF and New Armies were equipped differently from the Regulars in the early stages of the war i.e were they using obsolete equipment? Similarly Division sin 1914 had 54 18-Pdrs yet the HOMOM has tables showing 48 x 18-Pdrs per Div - seemingly a reduction of one Battery per division.

4. Numbers. One of the things I am finding very difficult to re-construct is the exact buildup of the number of 18-Pdr guns in France and Flanders between Aug 1914 (324) and mid 1915 (793) (SMEBE stats).

Any pointers on any of the above would be welcome.

Thank you. MG

PS. I don't own Farndale's book. Is it worth buying?

[RobL]

Can't help but regarding the Farndale's, after many years I managed to get hold of the volume that includes Gallipoli. Extremely disappointing, dryer than a mouth full of Suvla Bay sand and is more like a run through of the various battles than RA-specific. Not sure how he can include numbers of guns as available, such as 60 pounders and 6 inch howitzers, when they hadn't even been landed yet!

[battiscombe]

I would suggest Farndale would answer quite a lot of the questions you asked - and largely based on Brigade and Divisional and indeed personal diaries. That for example some batteries were not in the line by November due to lack of ammunition [and lack of guns - many also seriously worn] is one point I seem to recall... War diaries will provide quite exact figures, especially in DAC records.. they also commonly record daily expenditure of shell, often at a battery level... [as many regular batteries maintained diaries until 1915].

Farndale traces the arrival of Brigades and Batteries from 1914 .. but what will be of interest depends again what exactly you wish to know .. there were probably something like 130-140 batteries of various kinds in France by Jan 1915 I would think.. 58 batteries at Mons, give or take.. but already being reorganised in inventive ways ..

for what its worth the 1915 war establishment figures provide 'approximate number of rounds provided in the field per gun'

18pdr - 176 with battery, 76 with BAC, 126 with DAC [total 378 in field]; 150 with Ammunition Park; 472 with 'other reserves in LoC'; total 1,000

4.5 ... .......total 800

60 pdr .....total 500

Farndale reports by 24th October 'there were only some 150 rounds per gun in France' [p.73], ..

[ianjonesncl]

PS. I don't own Farndale's book. Is it worth buying?

Thank you. MG

PS. I don't own Farndale's book. Is it worth buying?

Martin

I was around in the Royal Regiment when Farndale was peddling the book. I bought t when it was re-printed as the price became very expensive.

I must admit I struggle with the book and have a lot of difficulty reading it. Even as a Gunner I find it a bit over the top in terms of the RA contribution and his exclamation ! marks ! every other sentence ! a bit ! off putting !

It sits on my bookshelf as one should read !!

Ian

[ianjonesncl]

Martin

Reference ammunition this may be of interest:

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=139259&st=0&p=1327942&fromsearch=1entry1327942

Ian

[Ron Clifton]

Hello Martin

The following is an extract from a WFA Fact Sheet which I wrote many years ago, which outlines the composition of divisional RFA at various stages:

GUN ESTABLISHMENTS OF A DIVISION: NUMBERS OF BATTERIES

1st Bde 2nd Bde 3rd Bde 4th Bde

Regular 1914 3x6 guns 3x6 guns 3x6 guns 3x6 howrs

Territorial 1914 3x4 guns 3x4 guns 3x4 guns 2x4 howrs

New Armies 1/15 4x4 guns 4x4 guns 4x4 guns 4x4 howrs

Regular 6/15 3x6 guns 3x6 guns 2x6 guns 2x6 howrs

New Armies 6/15* 4x4 guns 4x4 guns 4x4 guns 3x4 howrs

Regular 5/16 3x6g,1x4h 3x6g,1x4h 2x6g,1x4h (none)

Territorial 5/16 3x4g,1x4h 3x4g,1x4h 3x4g,1x4h 3x4 guns

New Armies 5/16 3x4g,1x4h 3x4g,1x4h 3x4g,1x4h 3x4 guns

All types 1/17** 3x6g,1x6h 3x6g,1x6h (none) (none)

*: Some of the New Army howitzer brigades, mainly in the first three New Armies, had given up one battery to help make up some of the Canadian and late-formed Regular divisions.
**: Army Field Artillery brigades were formed at this time by withdrawing about one-quarter of the strength of divisional artilleries. These brigades, organized on the same basis as the new divisional brigades, were grouped under Army control and attached to Corps and Divisions as need arose.

The position as regards RGA is more complicated and I will return to it at the weekend.

Ron

[Ron Clifton]

Some notes on gun types:

The field artillery of a Territorial division consisted, like the Regular divisions, of three brigades of guns and a brigade of howitzers, but in this case the guns were 15-pounders, the brigades consisting of three four-gun batteries, and the howitzers were the 5-inch type, with two four-gun batteries in each brigade. (The TF horse batteries were also equipped with 15-pounder guns, but of a different type.)

These three types of gun had been replaced in the Regular Army by the newer models, the 13 and 18-pounders and the 4.5-inch, during the decade up to 1914. The Territorial batteries were also re-equipped with the newer guns and howitzers, mostly between November 1915 and February 1916.

Ron

[nigelcave]

For a particular instance, when writing the Menin Road (Ypres 1914) I noted that the OH stated that Haig ordered a significant number of guns well to the rear at the height of 1st Ypres because of the lack of ammunition. Everything still in boxes at the moment, so cannot lay my hands on the relevant page in the OH volume, but I am sure that you will find it easily enough with a browse through it.

[nigelfe]

The Field Service Pocket Book 1914 (available as a reprint) gives the organisational summaries for units. Once you understand these its quite easy to follow the organisational changes to RA throughout the war. Farndale's two WW1 volumes make these reasonably clear. However, changes did not take place instantly, everywhere, and this can make it a bit confusing.

It might be useful to note that Sir Martin used at least one researcher, and I think others. Having glanced at his two WW1 vols I have to say that I didn't see many '!', of course I'm prejudiced having been flown by him, at least I can say I've been in a heli at night with a 3* general pilot (staff officer's perks).

[Guest]

Gentlemen - thank you all. I will respond in more detail later when I have gathered my thoughts.

The OH 1914 Vol II mentions shortages of ammunition twelve times. The relevant dates covered the period 24th Oct 1914 - when Sir John French warned the Sec of State for War that his troops might have to fight without artillery support if the supply of ammunition could not be maintained - to 12th Nov 1914 - when the sitiuation was described as 'in the highest degree of precarious' due to the shortages. Between these dates, some snippets, some of which are arguably conflicting;

25th Oct - 18-Pdr ammunition raised from 30 to 60 rds per gun per day (rpgpd)

31st Oct - All batteries ordered to husband ammunition. Sir John French in great anxiety about ammunition supply...certain to run short.

1st Nov - GHQ orders RHA batteries to economise ammunition

1st Nov - III Corps doubled the daily amounts from 40 to 80 rpgpd (18-pdrs) and 10 to 20 for 4.5" Howitzers

1st Nov - Sir John French sends messages ; only 180 rds per Fd How and 320 rds per fd gun and no 100 lb lyddite for the 6" Hows.

4th Nov - Haig withdrew one third of his artillery and sends them SW of Ypres du to shortages of ammunition

5th Nov - Haig orders rail-head ammunition to be limited to 20 rpgpd (18-Pdrs) and 10 rpgpd (4.5" Hows)

8th Nov - two batteries in action limited to only 6 rpgpd

[Guest]

I would suggest Farndale would answer quite a lot of the questions you asked - and largely based on Brigade and Divisional and indeed personal diaries. That for example some batteries were not in the line by November due to lack of ammunition [and lack of guns - many also seriously worn] is one point I seem to recall... War diaries will provide quite exact figures, especially in DAC records.. they also commonly record daily expenditure of shell, often at a battery level... [as many regular batteries maintained diaries until 1915].

Farndale traces the arrival of Brigades and Batteries from 1914 .. but what will be of interest depends again what exactly you wish to know .. there were probably something like 130-140 batteries of various kinds in France by Jan 1915 I would think.. 58 batteries at Mons, give or take.. but already being reorganised in inventive ways ..

for what its worth the 1915 war establishment figures provide 'approximate number of rounds provided in the field per gun'

18pdr - 176 with battery, 76 with BAC, 126 with DAC [total 378 in field]; 150 with Ammunition Park; 472 with 'other reserves in LoC'; total 1,000

4.5 ... .......total 800

60 pdr .....total 500

Farndale reports by 24th October 'there were only some 150 rounds per gun in France' [p.73], ..

Thanks for this... If I could ask some questions

1. War Diaries - Do you have any examples of battery records?.... I have trawled 1st Div - 8th Div CRA war diaries and only 6th Div managed to maintain detailed expenditure records for Oct Nov 1914. I have yet to wade through the battery diaries but spot checks so far have yielded nothing - which surprised me a lot. If you are able to short-circuit this pursuit and point me to a Battery that kept detailed records on a daily basis it would help a lot.

Edit - just found one- 16th Bty RFA. Daily expenditure recorded in the war diary. MG

Edit 2 -and 17th Bty RFA

2. Thanks for the ammunition scales. Useful.

MG

[Guest]

Martin

Reference ammunition this may be of interest:

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=139259&st=0&p=1327942&fromsearch=1entry1327942

Ian

Thanks. Very useful. MG

Hello Martin

The following is an extract from a WFA Fact Sheet which I wrote many years ago, which outlines the composition of divisional RFA at various stages:

GUN ESTABLISHMENTS OF A DIVISION: NUMBERS OF BATTERIES

1st Bde 2nd Bde 3rd Bde 4th Bde

Regular 1914 3x6 guns 3x6 guns 3x6 guns 3x6 howrs

Territorial 1914 3x4 guns 3x4 guns 3x4 guns 2x4 howrs

New Armies 1/15 4x4 guns 4x4 guns 4x4 guns 4x4 howrs

Regular 6/15 3x6 guns 3x6 guns 2x6 guns 2x6 howrs

New Armies 6/15* 4x4 guns 4x4 guns 4x4 guns 3x4 howrs

Regular 5/16 3x6g,1x4h 3x6g,1x4h 2x6g,1x4h (none)

Territorial 5/16 3x4g,1x4h 3x4g,1x4h 3x4g,1x4h 3x4 guns

New Armies 5/16 3x4g,1x4h 3x4g,1x4h 3x4g,1x4h 3x4 guns

All types 1/17** 3x6g,1x6h 3x6g,1x6h (none) (none)

*: Some of the New Army howitzer brigades, mainly in the first three New Armies, had given up one battery to help make up some of the Canadian and late-formed Regular divisions.

**: Army Field Artillery brigades were formed at this time by withdrawing about one-quarter of the strength of divisional artilleries. These brigades, organized on the same basis as the new divisional brigades, were grouped under Army control and attached to Corps and Divisions as need arose.

The position as regards RGA is more complicated and I will return to it at the weekend.

Ron

Thanks Ron... just the job.. and clears up a big question. . I assume 6/15 and 5/15 refer to Jun 1915 and May 1915....they appear to be in reverse order, hence my query. I assume that is just the way the info came out... MG

[Guest]

Some notes on gun types:

The field artillery of a Territorial division consisted, like the Regular divisions, of three brigades of guns and a brigade of howitzers, but in this case the guns were 15-pounders, the brigades consisting of three four-gun batteries, and the howitzers were the 5-inch type, with two four-gun batteries in each brigade. (The TF horse batteries were also equipped with 15-pounder guns, but of a different type.)

These three types of gun had been replaced in the Regular Army by the newer models, the 13 and 18-pounders and the 4.5-inch, during the decade up to 1914. The Territorial batteries were also re-equipped with the newer guns and howitzers, mostly between November 1915 and February 1916.

Ron

Thanks too for this... HOMOM shows schedules for the gradual replacement of the TF's 15 Pdrs with 18 Pdrs over this period too. The numbers more or less align.

For a particular instance, when writing the Menin Road (Ypres 1914) I noted that the OH stated that Haig ordered a significant number of guns well to the rear at the height of 1st Ypres because of the lack of ammunition. Everything still in boxes at the moment, so cannot lay my hands on the relevant page in the OH volume, but I am sure that you will find it easily enough with a browse through it.

Nigel - I suspect this is page 379 of Vol II 4th Nov 1914. Thanks for flagging this. It certainly was one of the examples lingering at the back of my mind. . MG

[Guest]

There's an interesting statement by the Deputy Minister of Munitions Mr Kellaway on the 24th of June 1919 in Hansard. There might be some useful figures in it?

Mike

[charlesmessenger]

Martin

Haig noted in his diary on 30 Mar 15 that only 7.5 rounds per gun were being manufactured in UK. Does not specify gun types. On 27 May 15 he notes that there were 385 rounds per 18pdr in heatre on 20 Apr, but that this had been reduced to 40 rds per gun on 26 May.

Charles M

[Guest]

Martin

Haig noted in his diary on 30 Mar 15 that only 7.5 rounds per gun were being manufactured in UK. Does not specify gun types. On 27 May 15 he notes that there were 385 rounds per 18pdr in heatre on 20 Apr, but that this had been reduced to 40 rds per gun on 26 May.

Charles M

Thanks Charles.

Some nice detail. I assume this is rounds being manufactured per gun per day.

In April 1914 there were 625 18-Pdrs in the Western Front with the BEF which would suggest around 130,000 rounds of 18-pdr ammunition being produced each month. Expenditure in Apr 1915 was 242,000 rounds of 18-Pdr ammunition. Stats are patchy for this period, but we know that in the 13 weeks to 3rd July 1915, 790,000 rounds of 18-Pdr ammunition was sent out to France - less than 61,000 rounds per week or roughly 8700 rounds per day. Spread across the 625 18-Pdr guns this equated to less than 14 rounds per gun per day. At the peak of First Ypres some guns fired 500 rounds in a single day*

The expenditure of ammunition outstripping the Govt's ability to manufacture is tangible. For Gunners to be instructed to 'economise' when faced with an assaulting German Army is an interesting episode.

HOMOM has quarterly figures for ammunition production and the early 1915 figures are very low compared to later years, even a year into the war the stats suggest huge logistical challenges.

MG

* 38th Bde RFA fired 2,971 rounds on 20th Oct 1914. Between 18th Oct and 22nd Nov 1914, its guns fired 44 rounds per day on average - or three times the rate of production.

[paulgranger]

The Wikipedia entry 'Shell crisis of 1915' has some source references that may be of use, or of peripheral interest.

[Ron Clifton]

Thanks. Very useful. MG

Thanks Ron... just the job.. and clears up a big question. . I assume 6/15 and 5/15 refer to Jun 1915 and May 1915....they appear to be in reverse order, hence my query. I assume that is just the way the info came out... MG

6/15 and 5/16, actually! Yes, they are dates.

The changes shown in my table as "1/17" were in fact implemented between late October 1916 and February 1917. I think the timings relate to the dates the various divisions disengaged from the Battles of the Somme.

Incidentally you may find more in Hansard, and in the contemporary press, about the "shell shortage scandal" if you search for the name of Maj-Gen Maurice. As I recall, he risked his career by bringing the shortages to public attention, and of course the creation of the Ministry of Munitions was part of the Government's response.

Ron

[Guest]

6/15 and 5/16, actually! Yes, they are dates.

The changes shown in my table as "1/17" were in fact implemented between late October 1916 and February 1917. I think the timings relate to the dates the various divisions disengaged from the Battles of the Somme.

Ron

Sorry... I am going word blind... thanks. MG

[Ron Clifton]

It might be useful to note that Sir Martin used at least one researcher, and I think others. Having glanced at his two WW1 vols I have to say that I didn't see many '!', of course I'm prejudiced having been flown by him, at least I can say I've been in a heli at night with a 3* general pilot (staff officer's perks).

As I recall, much of the text, especially of the Western Front volume, was based on a draft by Edgar Anstey. The exclamation marks may have been his. But you are right about the use of researchers, some of whom let him down a bit when it came to the appendices. There are some (not many) obvious errors in the orbats, and discrepancies with the official Nov 1918 orbat reprinted by the IWM.

I had a great respect for Sir Martin, having had the privilege of sitting next to him at lunch in the Officers' Room at Woolwich, and having been on two or three battlefield tours with him.

Ron

[brummell]

Martin,

2 Div DCA records may be of use and interest:

Ammunition expended during Oct 1914

18-pdr Shrapnel - 31, 191

HE - 135

4.5" Shrapnel - 2643

HE - 5006

60-pdr Shrapnel - 524

HE - 984

These are from the 44th Bde RFA war diary. No figures for September or November. Throughout this time the bde was deployed ivo Westhoek and Gheluvelt. It also records, on 28 Oct 14, 'The supply of lyddite running short, Div AC have been ordered only to supply lyddite in proportion of one lyddite to two shrapnel in future, whatever the expenditure of lyddite.'

Also, interestingly, 1,974,150 rds of what I take to be small arms ammunition.

I will check my own Battery's war diary when I get back to work next week - whoever wrote that loved a good table of figures...

- brummell

[Ron Clifton]

A few more thoughts on divisional artilleries in 1914-15.

Each division originally had one Heavy Battery of 60-pounders (4.7-inch in the TF) but these were withdrawn to GHQ/Army control by about February 1915.

7th and 8th Divisions each replaced one of the 18-pounder brigades with an RHA Brigade (two batteries of 13-pounders, re-armed by June 1915 with 18-pounders) and had a brigade of two heavy batteries (4.7-inch) instead of the howitzer brigade. These heavy batteries were also withdrawn by Feb 1915.

As well as the six Siege Batteries (6-inch 30cwt) which accompanied the BEF to France in 1914, a number of new heavy batteries were formed as Army Artillery, with the 4.7-inch gun, which was gradually replaced during 1916 with the 60-pounder. Heavy batteries were normally organised with three to a brigade, being formally under Army control but normally allocated to Corps. As some heavier weapons - 6-inch guns and 8-inch and 9.2-inch howitzers - became available, these were organised as two-battery Heavy Artillery Reserve brigades, under Army control.

Heavy and siege brigades were generally replaced with Heavy Artillery Groups (HAGs), of varying compositions, in April 1916 and these in turn were replaced by Brigades RGA, of five standard types with fairly fixed battery allocations, in February 1918.

Ron

[Guest]

Martin,

2 Div DCA records may be of use and interest:

Ammunition expended during Oct 1914

18-pdr Shrapnel - 31, 191

HE - 135

4.5" Shrapnel - 2643

HE - 5006

60-pdr Shrapnel - 524

HE - 984

These are from the 44th Bde RFA war diary. No figures for September or November. Throughout this time the bde was deployed ivo Westhoek and Gheluvelt. It also records, on 28 Oct 14, 'The supply of lyddite running short, Div AC have been ordered only to supply lyddite in proportion of one lyddite to two shrapnel in future, whatever the expenditure of lyddite.'

Also, interestingly, 1,974,150 rds of what I take to be small arms ammunition.

I will check my own Battery's war diary when I get back to work next week - whoever wrote that loved a good table of figures...

- brummell

2nd Div AC provides data for the first 90 days of the War:

[brummell]

Ha! In that case, sorry to have wasted your time.

- brummell

[Guest]

Ha! In that case, sorry to have wasted your time.

- brummell

I only found it a few days ago. .... It certainly isn't a waste of time as your data dives a very nice breakdown of a single months. From this we can begin to see greater detail. Can I ask the diary Ref please? WO 95/????

MG