Woodsc Posted 5 April , 2015 Share Posted 5 April , 2015 Hi Can anyone please identify the patches on this Coldstream Guards uniform and if possible date ?? Trying to identify if the uniform is WW1 period - jacket has WD marking and broad arrow with letter D below - stick on label inside jacket which is missing. Hope you can help ~ Thank You Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 5 April , 2015 Share Posted 5 April , 2015 Grumpy is you man for this but I believe: LG is a Lewis Gunner's badge and the Crossed Rifles with star is Skill At Arms (Musketry) with the star indicating best shot in the company. The chevrons are "good conduct" chevrons. (awaits correction) Chris Edit: I would assume that the presence of the LG badge would suggest post WWI? (or did the Coldstream Guards maintain their scarlet for ceremonial duties during the war?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 6 April , 2015 Share Posted 6 April , 2015 Full dress was only returned to the Household Troops in I think 1920, wearing SD until then. I am not sure if skill at arms badges were permitted again on full dress, but I suspect that they might well have been, it was only later they ceased as a cost savings measure ( I think at the same time as bandsmen lost their gold lace chest decoration) The only thing that surprises me is that I would have expected them to have an additional backing of scarlet cloth, without which they look odd, but perhaps that is how they were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 6 April , 2015 Share Posted 6 April , 2015 there are lots of patches on ebay - more than I have seen before - do these look like been there a long time ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodsc Posted 6 April , 2015 Author Share Posted 6 April , 2015 there are lots of patches on ebay - more than I have seen before - do these look like been there a long time ? Hi Coldstreamer Sorry unable answer as the uniform is currently up for auction on ebay. I am a novice relating to this type of uniform hence my post for a bit of help from you experts. The jacket does appear to be old but I am not sure if the trousers/belt which are included are of the right period. I would like an old uniform as a feature in my collection but as you can appreciate I want to get it right Many thanks for taking the time to reply Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 6 April , 2015 Share Posted 6 April , 2015 Foot Guards skill/trade/appointment and rank badges were and are uniquely on facing colour: dark navy-blue. This distinction back to 1868 when the Line lost their facing colour backings but the Guards retained them. The only exception that I know of is and was the RSM Royal Arms badge, which is on scarlet. This dates back to when it was worn superimposed on four chevrons, themselves on dark navy-blue. I would be perfectly happy with the tunic. It is not modern because for at least 20 if not 30 years the placing of badges other than rank on them has been virtually in abeyance as they permanently mark the sleeves and make them difficult to re-issue. There are exceptions: including SAS, Para, dagger, pilots wings, pioneer sergeant axes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodsc Posted 6 April , 2015 Author Share Posted 6 April , 2015 Foot Guards skill/trade/appointment and rank badges were and are uniquely on facing colour: dark navy-blue. This distinction back to 1868 when the Line lost their facing colour backings but the Guards retained them. The only exception that I know of is and was the RSM Royal Arms badge, which is on scarlet. This dates back to when it was worn superimposed on four chevrons, themselves on dark navy-blue. I would be perfectly happy with the tunic. It is not modern because for at least 20 if not 30 years the placing of badges other than rank on them has been virtually in abeyance as they permanently mark the sleeves and make them difficult to re-issue. There are exceptions: including SAS, Para, dagger, pilots wings, pioneer sergeant axes. Hi Thanks for your reply and information Can I just clarify ~ are you saying (to the best of your knowledge) the tunic and patches look genuine and would have been worn accordingly. Looking at the images it difficult to see if the facing colour is dark blue (something I can check with the seller) if you think it is OK I have attached a image of the trousers which I question if they of the same period ~ any comments would be appreciated Hope you can help ~ Thank You Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 6 April , 2015 Share Posted 6 April , 2015 From what I see the tunic looks cosher. I am not into netherwear CAVEAT EMPTOR however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodsc Posted 6 April , 2015 Author Share Posted 6 April , 2015 From what I see the tunic looks cosher. I am not into netherwear CAVEAT EMPTOR however. Thanks for your help ~ a bit of Latin as well ~ I will try Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 6 April , 2015 Share Posted 6 April , 2015 Foot Guards skill/trade/appointment and rank badges were and are uniquely on facing colour: dark navy-blue. This distinction back to 1868 when the Line lost their facing colour backings but the Guards retained them. The only exception that I know of is and was the RSM Royal Arms badge, which is on scarlet. This dates back to when it was worn superimposed on four chevrons, themselves on dark navy-blue. I would be perfectly happy with the tunic. It is not modern because for at least 20 if not 30 years the placing of badges other than rank on them has been virtually in abeyance as they permanently mark the sleeves and make them difficult to re-issue. There are exceptions: including SAS, Para, dagger, pilots wings, pioneer sergeant axes. Good info Grumpy - very interesting. It looks a good'n to me too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 6 April , 2015 Share Posted 6 April , 2015 Hi Thanks for your reply and information Can I just clarify ~ are you saying (to the best of your knowledge) the tunic and patches look genuine and would have been worn accordingly. Looking at the images it difficult to see if the facing colour is dark blue (something I can check with the seller) if you think it is OK I have attached a image of the trousers which I question if they of the same period ~ any comments would be appreciated Hope you can help ~ Thank You Colin Colin, buttons are a big indicator on the trousers. If modern they will be plastic. If very old zinc, bone, or sometimes Bakelite. Trouser stripe are thinner too. See images. The belts have changed very little, with just some brass buckles removed since the Guards no longer mounted with either greatcoat or cape in Guard Order. These were at the back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 7 April , 2015 Share Posted 7 April , 2015 Foot Guards skill/trade/appointment and rank badges were and are uniquely on facing colour: dark navy-blue. This distinction back to 1868 when the Line lost their facing colour backings but the Guards retained them. Out of interest, in the immediate pre-war period what form would this mean that a wreathed MG badge and LSGC stripes would take on a normal (non-Guards) scarlet dress tunic/doublet? I had thought it might be the same as the Guards (bullion/gold on blue, and white on narrow blue on red respectively) as above, but what you say would suggest this is not the case. It is for something I am working on at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 7 April , 2015 Share Posted 7 April , 2015 Andrew, with a few exceptions [mainly cavalry and rifles if I remember correctly] all badges for scarlet tunic [and frock if issued] were to be bullion or off-white worsted on scarlet. To take a Good Conduct Badge and convert it to non-Guards involves removing the blue intermediate backing. Regiments/ Corps with blue tunics such as RA had the badge designs on blue. That's the short version! Clothing Regs and Priced Vocabs single out Footguards for different arrangements. Well, they would, wouldn't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 7 April , 2015 Share Posted 7 April , 2015 Andrew, with a few exceptions [mainly cavalry and rifles if I remember correctly] all badges for scarlet tunic [and frock if issued] were to be bullion or off-white worsted on scarlet. To take a Good Conduct Badge and convert it to non-Guards involves removing the blue intermediate backing. Regiments/ Corps with blue tunics such as RA had the badge designs on blue. That's the short version! Clothing Regs and Priced Vocabs single out Footguards for different arrangements. Well, they would, wouldn't they? That matches those I have seen in colour. I will try and post some images later. Incidentally the rules have not changed and are now seen on mess kit albeit smaller sized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 7 April , 2015 Share Posted 7 April , 2015 Andrew, with a few exceptions [mainly cavalry and rifles if I remember correctly] all badges for scarlet tunic [and frock if issued] were to be bullion or off-white worsted on scarlet. To take a Good Conduct Badge and convert it to non-Guards involves removing the blue intermediate backing. Regiments/ Corps with blue tunics such as RA had the badge designs on blue. That's the short version! Thanks, a shame really as it's very easy to find the Guards versions of the badges, but if they're not right they're not right... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 7 April , 2015 Share Posted 7 April , 2015 It's worth knowing that the Guards also had their own version of khaki SD badges too, being both slightly larger and with different shades of thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodsc Posted 7 April , 2015 Author Share Posted 7 April , 2015 Many thanks to all who have kindly provided information As mentioned I lack knowledge in respect of uniforms but my gut feeling after chatting to you guys is the tunic looks OK but I have concerns relating to the trousers (could be of a later period). Not sure if anyone will respond to this question ~ What is the normal going rate for purchasing a uniform like this and should I keep looking for before making my first purchase. Obviously would like a uniform around WW1 period. Thank again for all your help ~ I've certainly gained valuable information from you experts. Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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