Medaille Militaire to a Submariner ?

[submarine]

Dear All

I recently saw a Memorial Plaque to Alfred Robert Fleming 180617 PO ,which said he was entitled to the

" Medaille Militaire " I was wondering why a Submariner would receive a French award ? . I could understand a Soldier on the Western Front but a Submariner ? Or is it a case of the French giving the other alies a bucket full of Medals and we award them as seen fit . Incerdently he died on HMSs E30 in 1916 .

Colin

[GraemeClarke]

Hi

Mentioned here

http://www.naval-history.net/WW1Battle1605Jutland4.htm

The President of the FRENCH REPUBLIC has bestowed the "Medaille Militaire," with the approval of His Majesty the King, on the undermentioned Commissioned Warrant Officers, Warrant Officers, Petty Officers and Men in recognition of their services during the war:

Regards,

Graeme

[submarine]

The mistory deepens he got it Jutland ?

Sorry Graeme I ment to thank you for your help

Colin

[Joe R]

E30 was lost on 22 November 1916 on ( mine?).

All crew killed, 30 officers and men total.

Respectfully,

Joe R

[Michael Lowrey]

Would hope and even expect that the loss of E 30 to be resolved in the next year or two.

Best wishes,

Michael

[sadsac]

Here Colin is such that I have on PO Fleming ;

FLEMING ALFRED ROBERT PO P/ 180617 MM RN SM E.30 22.11.16 Z

37 220679 F

PORTSMOUTH 11 PORTSMOUTH 3 - 246

Husband of Annie Fleming, of 44 Prince George St., Portsea, Portsmouth.

Killed in loss of vessel in North Sea.

Awarded Medaille Militaire (France).

HMS MAIDSTONE. ADM 188 / 300.

P.o.B ; Camberwell, London. Occ ; Printers Assistant.

Sadsac

[submarine]

Thank you all for info provided , I'm still at a loss as to why it was awarded , I can only assume these awards were used by Skippers to reward good and loyal service . Thank you Sadsac I have looked at his papers and although he served for many years in the "Trade" there is no mention of which Submarines he served on .

Colin

[ForeignGong]

Hi

Over the many years that I have researched foreign awards, I have come to the conclusion that the British authorities tended to keep to the Foreign countries reason for awarding a particular medal, cross, etc. In this case, the Medaille Militaire is a military decoration for all ranks for acts of bravery in action against an enemy force and of the recommendations / citations that I have read, this is why they were awarded to members of the Commonwealth.. Mind you the Brits tended more towards awarding the Medaille Militaire to OR's and the Légion d'honneur to Officers.

As seen in Graeme's post above this one was for Jutland as well as other engagements. This is the LG for Graeme's list

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/29751/supplement/9082

Approx 1520 Medaille Militaire's were gazetted during WW1.

Although it is not yet known how many French awards were not gazetted, Army Order No 466 of 1914 lists 198 Medaille Militaire which were not, and other instances are known, see OMRS Journal Vol 30, P18.

In the case of Jutland I believe that the French and Russians allotted a number of awards to be distributed to the RN and as not ALL deserving sailors could be awarded Imperial recognition, SOME of those that missed out were awarded Foreign medals. I believe that those awarded Medaille Militaire's would have been for an act of gallantry.

Most of my research has been Army as I have had to do it all online and Naval info has been a bit slow coming online.

Peter

[submarine]

Thanks Peter I was looking at it from am Army point of view and how difficult some Foreign awards are to check out as not all were gazetted as you said . Are well it was just an interesting thought .

Many thanks

Colin

[Guest Terryd39]

Hi, not really related but my wife's grandfather was one of the four sailors killed in the explosion on the E30 . We know he is buried in Blyth and hope to go there this summer my question is wether there were any medals and if so how do we go about claiming them His name and service number:-John Smith Stoker 1st K9282 (Dev) d.o.d. 07 04 1916

[healdav]

I have seen a lot of government papers (not British) about the award of foreign medals. Usually, someone is going or coming on an official visit. The award often just comes down to tossing a coin to see who gets a gong (stangely, the government giving the medal asks the government of the country getting it to nominate the person), and sometimes there are bizarre disussions about who hasn't had a medal recently!

This last because sometimes he awarding government specifies that it is to go to a soldier, sailor, pliceman, etc.

I would guess that in this case it was apseicified by the French that a submariner was to get it, and the British tossed a coin or similar.

[ForeignGong]

I have seen a lot of government papers (not British) about the award of foreign medals. Usually, someone is going or coming on an official visit. The award often just comes down to tossing a coin to see who gets a gong (stangely, the government giving the medal asks the government of the country getting it to nominate the person), and sometimes there are bizarre disussions about who hasn't had a medal recently!

This last because sometimes he awarding government specifies that it is to go to a soldier, sailor, pliceman, etc.

I would guess that in this case it was apseicified by the French that a submariner was to get it, and the British tossed a coin or similar.

This may have been the case prior to WW1 when as you say visiting VIP's would hand a few around but not with WW1 recipients, almost all the recommendations / citations I have seen, are as I stated above, the award was given as the foreign country would have done to their troops. ie bravery awards for bravery and meritorious for service above and beyond.

Peter