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Remembered Today:

Officers Swagger Sticks - Where'd they go?


CambraiComrade

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British officers were generally not stupid, while they were formally armed with revolvers they fairly swiftly changed to carrying a rifle, with bayonet fixed, in deliberate attacks. A review of the many photos and sketches (from various theatres) in the RA Commemoration Book reveals no sign of a swagger stick. Swagger sticks may have been fine for day to day carrying in the trenches, but went into the valise on the important occasions or when there was proper work to be done. I'd also suggest that practices varied between units, as anyone who actually knows anything about the British Army is only too well aware, uniformity was not a highly regarded trait.

In WW1 you seem to be mixing 'swagger sticks', an item required of soldiers but not officers in WW1, with walking sticks that initially, as explained in this thread, were required of officers. I agree with you that from at least 1916 officers were often carrying rifles and also that there was great variation in practice between units. You would do well to read more than just the RA commemoration book. There are 100s of WW1 biographies and unpublished accounts from which the information recounted in this thread has been gleaned.

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This book is available to read online in two different formats. You can borrow it, from the Archive.org Lending Library, but first you must register, and you may need to wait, as only one person at a time can read it.

https://archive.org/details/buglesandtigervo00mast

You can also read it online on the Digital Library of India website http://www.new1.dli.ernet.in

The books on this site are in TIFF format, so you may need to download a plug in, to be able to read the pages.There is more about this website in the FIBIS Fibiwiki page Online books http://wiki.fibis.org/index.php/Online_books#Digital_Library_of_India

If you have technical skills Googling will show you that people have produced programs to automatically down load entire books from this website, rather than read them online.

Cheers

Maureen

Thank you Maureen, that is very interesting and useful to know.

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Re other ranks 'walking out sticks, swagger sticks'. Were British soldiers 'required' to purchase and carry sticks during WW1 or was it carried over from pre-war times as a fashion accessory, the sticks being sold on to newer soldiers. The evidence of surviving sticks wouldn't suggest there were at least a couple of million in circulation. Corporals training recruits in the 1980's carried them as a sort of badge of office, they could buy their own or collect one from stores.

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. Corporals training recruits in the 1980's carried them as a sort of badge of office, they could buy their own or collect one from stores.

Possibly a regimental thing then. As I recall it, in mid 1950s REME, no Pte/Cfn/NCO carried any kind of stick, WOs carried large ones. All officers carried the short leather covered stick.

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There you go 1980.

post-11859-0-64344300-1428140895_thumb.j

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Re other ranks 'walking out sticks, swagger sticks'. Were British soldiers 'required' to purchase and carry sticks during WW1 or was it carried over from pre-war times as a fashion accessory, the sticks being sold on to newer soldiers. The evidence of surviving sticks wouldn't suggest there were at least a couple of million in circulation. Corporals training recruits in the 1980's carried them as a sort of badge of office, they could buy their own or collect one from store

I have never found them listed in clothing or equipment regulations as an issue item and my research indicates that they had to be purchased regimentally.

This might seem odd but was a long standing part of British Army culture. So-called 'Necessaries', for example were not always a Free Kit and originally a soldier received them and then had their value deducted from his pay.

During WW1 individual units (battalions) would lay down what the policy was to be for walking out. I do know that the majority insisted on them as part of an overall effort to instill martial instincts of smartness and regimental pride into hostilities only soldiers mass recruited from the civil population.

It was not unusual in the 1960s-70s-80s, for soldiers to be sent to the regimental shop to purchase regimental items on joining their battalion.

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There you go 1980.

Yes that is interesting to see how things are constantly evolving and those are modern swagger sticks there is no doubt. Not seen carried by JNCOs the decade before in all the depots that I visited. Only SNCOs permitted to carry any kind of stick. Either a pace stick (if drill qualified at Pirbright) or a parade cane.

The only times they were officially carried that I saw was by the so-called 'stick orderlies' who escorted a general officer or other dignitary as they marched up the ranks in open review order on inspections as part of a formal battalion parade. The pair (always) of 'stick orderlies' slow marched ahead of the dignitories and waited at the end of each rank whilst the individual concerned talked to the odd soldier.

Once he reached the end of the ranks the 'stick orderlies' then slow marched down the next rank. In effect 'leading the way'. This was especially useful when the reviewing individual was a civilian, perhaps a Town Mayor, with no military experience. They were in effect his guides. Each of them carried a swagger stick (with solid silver top from the Victorian era I recall) clutched in the correct manner under the arm. It was considered an honour to be selected for the task of 'stick orderly' and they were usually appointed by the RSM from those best at drill from the previous JNCO training course (cadre).

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It was not unusual in the 1960s-70s-80s, for soldiers to be sent to the regimental shop to purchase regimental items on joining their battlalion.

Penknife, Silva compass, boot brushes... nice little earners for the NAAFI manageress wife of the RSM.

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Yes that is interesting to see how things are constantly evolving. Not seen carried by JNCOs the decade before in all the depots that I visited. Only SNCOs permitted to carry any kind of stick. Either a pace stick (if drill qualified at Pirbright) or a parade cane.

The only staff allowed pace sticks, this is RAMC by the way, were those who had attended to drill course at the Guards Depot. The S/Sgt on the right of the pic is carrying a stick, the S/Sgt with sash and RSM have pace sticks. I'm sat next to the S/Sgt with the sash.

post-11859-0-42826500-1428144291_thumb.j

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The only staff allowed pace sticks, this is RAMC by the way, were those who had attended to drill course at the Guards Depot. The S/Sgt on the right of the pic is carrying a stick, the S/Sgt with sash and RSM have pace sticks. I'm sat next to the S/Sgt with the sash.

Unless that red sashed sergeant (drill instructor or not) is an infantryman on attachment then he is expressly breaching Army Dress Regulations. Another example of units doing their own thing if he is. That said many did it and got away with it. It remains illegal however. Infantry and infantry designated Corps (RAPTC and SASC) only.

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Definitely a corps Staff Sergeant. But then we also still had trade bands on our right lower sleeves, we loved tradition.

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Definitely a corps Staff Sergeant. But then we also still had trade bands on our right lower sleeves, we loved tradition.

Well RAMC trade bands are good to see. You earned them and they go back a very long way to your forebears.

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2/Lt 4th N Staffs in Sept 15. (Army List)

Maj, 5th Beds & Herts in 1938. (London Gazette)

Good of you to take that trouble, Phil.B.

Looks like he did his bit as a Territorial in both wars!

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Having checked a photo album for 1917-22 I'd have to say swagger sticks are thin on the ground. Coy photo from RMC Sandhurst in 1917 shows only 3 of the 6 commissioned officers holding them. A 1920 photo of the British and Indian officers of 3 Bn QVO Corps of Guides, 14 British and 12 Indian, shows 8 swagger sticks and 2 walking sticks. A photo of the British and Indian officers of 37 Dogras (receiving new colours) in the same period shows 20 British and 15 Indian officers, and not a swagger stick in sight.

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That's an interesting observation nigelfe

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Having checked a photo album for 1917-22 I'd have to say swagger sticks are thin on the ground. Coy photo from RMC Sandhurst in 1917 shows only 3 of the 6 commissioned officers holding them. A 1920 photo of the British and Indian officers of 3 Bn QVO Corps of Guides, 14 British and 12 Indian, shows 8 swagger sticks and 2 walking sticks. A photo of the British and Indian officers of 37 Dogras (receiving new colours) in the same period shows 20 British and 15 Indian officers, and not a swagger stick in sight.

That does not surprise me at all, as it is the transitional period that I tried to explain. If you did a similar exercise for the period just pre-WW1 you would see nary a swagger stick I suspect, as that was when ORs carried them and the officers carried walking sticks. Then try 1950s and you will see leather covered swagger sticks.

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British officers were generally not stupid, while they were formally armed with revolvers they fairly swiftly changed to carrying a rifle, with bayonet fixed, in deliberate attacks.

This also seems to have been a common German practice for the same category of officers (at platoon and company level in the infantry, when taking part in attacks). To my great regret I was heavily outbid last August on two wonderful photos of a Leutnant Friese and his company commander Leutnant Keil of Saxon IR 183 with steel helmets and rifles with fixed bayonets. Friese's combat gear was visible in detail and included an ammunition pouch for the rifle and a P08 tucked into his belt.

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IIRC there were a few swagger sticks still in evidence in the 1970s. Most of us did not bother with such affectations.

As I mentioned earlier in some units they were required as late as 1990. It is unfair I think to refer to them as 'affectations', it implies a foppish willingness, whereas the young officers concerned were obligated to have them as part of their kit. Just as as a tweed suit and brown trilby were required in regiments that frequented racing in regimental groups. The last such 'affectation' that I recall seeing was a Life Guards officer in summer undress carrying a whip ('crop') and wearing a Sam Browne over his shirt. I think he even had turn ups (cuffs) on his trousers.
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Absolutely not an affectation, it's an order of dress that continues to this day.

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Certainly required by dress regs in my former regiment for barrack dress and No2 dress (when sword not worn).

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Right up until I parted company 1996, Royal Air Force station commanders [usually Group Captains] sometimes carried a short black leather-bound cane when performing inspections or formal duties around the base. Accompanied by the Station Warrant Officer with a long black stick with silver knob on top.

Stick, pointing, 'orrible airmen and 'orrible things.

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So, apart from orders of dress, regimental anacronysms, personal choice etc., etc., as listed above, why were "sticks" of any kind originally carried by Officers?

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Not that I remember 100 years ago, but the environment was very different. The occasional animal needed a prod or a wave-off, urchins were eminently pokeable, blackberries needed hooking. When I go walkies over the fields I always carry a stick, sometimes an ashplant, sometimes a walking pole. When I am so decrepit as to NEED one, no doubt I shall not use one.

Stanway was given command of 1/6 Cheshires on 4th July 1916. While he was with the Cheshires, Edmund Blunden crossed his path (serving in the same brigade) and Blunden’s "Undertones of War" noted Stanway’s ‘indicatory stick, (him) speaking calmly of the night’s shelling, the hard work necessary to keep the trenches open and the enemy’s advantage of observation’.

As Neddy Seagoon would say "point pointy-point point!

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