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Remembered Today:

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Great Post Jan.

 

That is the most logical set of circumstances and fits with all of the details already provided.

so we will stick with that.

 

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Martin, thanks for the maps!

Charlie, thanks for the regimental history - always very interesting to read!

Jan, thanks for the translation and interpretation. I did not particularly ask for the Kriegsrangliste in Stuttgart, so I have to be satisfied with the Personalbogen.

 

Conclusion:  Very probable the Fins grave is the correct one and in Morisel there rests somebody else.

Great with all contributions including Martine's photo!

 

Christine

 

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very interesting ! I had not such 'luck' when researching Gefreite ; they are not mentionned ...

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very interesting ! I had not such 'luck' when researching Gefreite ; they are not mentionned ...

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Here is the fins and Sorel Trench map of Late 1918.

And this is the link where you can play with the transparency slider to view current imagery. ( and zoom in and out )

 

 

http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15&lat=50.0341&lon=3.0321&layers=101465197&b=2

 

once you click the above link it will open the NLS web site. To operate the Transparency overlay just slide the blue button to the left.

 

 

57C.jpg.d9afa78b8ff2817c2130c55e94d31ee8.jpg

Edited by Martin Feledziak
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On ‎2017‎-‎11‎-‎14 at 17:34, Martin Feledziak said:

Here is the fins and Sorel Trench map of Late 1918.

Thanks for the link and the map, Martin! Had now time to look at it a bit more. Nice to see the railway mentioned in the text about the field hospital 255.

And I saw for the first time Petit Sorel - always wondered where it was (since there is a Sorel-le-Grand).

Christine

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  • 6 months later...

Yesterday I got a letter from the VDK - a letter I did not dare to hope to ever receive - especially since I have been absent from this for a while. But sometimes as it turns out - it is good to wait and see.

 

Ilka Borowski from the VDK, managed to confirm that the grave in plot 6, row C number 10 is Gustav's grave location! (How did she do it????)

Because of her investigations 10 more German soldiers will have their grave location confirmed in Fins (maybe they are already commemorated there, but the exact location was previously unknown).

And she wrote further that the CWGC confirmed this week that Gustav and the other ten soldiers will get new headstones (I assume replacing the unknown soldier headstones with ones with their names)!!!

I had always hoped to get some kind of memorial plate for Gustav in place in Fins, but that the grave location could be confirmed - that is amazing!

 

I am incredibly thankful how this turned out now 100 years after Gustav's death. Of course I would like to know more. When will the headstones be in place (I would like to go there again then)? Who are the other ten soldiers (after so much time going through names of dead soldiers and grave lists)? What kind of documents could confirm this? But there will be time for this later.

 

A big thank you to all of you - without this forum, your knowledge and your support - this would not have happened!!!

Especially to you, Jan, who found the crucial documents, that helped to get it all on the right track and to you Martin, never giving up to search and writing to the CWGC to forward my case!

 

The six years from my first contact to the VDK regarding Gustav have been a journey. Times seems to have gone quickly.

 

Christine

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Christine,

what a wonderful result, may he and the others now rest in peace.

 

Charlie

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Wow Christine 

EPIC !!

Congratulations.

 

I really look forward to to full disclosure of the supporting documents.

FANTASTIC

 

Gustav.jpg.e7a564e784d1aaf15206b937bf230a8b.jpg

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Thanks!

And thanks for the coloured photo, Martin! Well done!

 

Forgot to say that I think that it is really amazing that the CWGC is  taking so well care of the graves of the German soldiers in Fins and will set new headstones in place. I am really thankful for that.

I will write to them of course.

 

Christine

 

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Great news! I'll try to use my contacts in CWGC to get some more info about when the stones will be replaced.

 

I am very happy that I could help in this matter.

 

Jan

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Thanks a lot Jan, that would be great!

Christine

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Brilliant result Christine. I'm so pleased for you. Let us know how the story progresses.

 

Pete.

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Thanks Pete! I am really very happy that this could be solved.

 

Ilka Borowski from the VDK had contacted the Deutsche Dienststelle in Berlin to get access to the archive that contains the Krankenbuchlager.

This is an archive the public has no access to and which contains millions of records on soldiers of both world wars regarding illnesses and treatments received in for example field hospitals (that is how I understood it). I have thought a lot about that archive and if there was any information about Gustav there.

 

Mrs Borowski got access, of course, but there were no data of the relevant field hospital (Wuerttembergisches Feldlazarett 255) available there either (good to know that this was checked and could be ruled out as a source of information).

What she did was to systematically research soldiers who died at that time in different field hospitals in Fins and compared these findings with the information she got form the archive in Stuttgart (Kriegsstammrollen of soldiers from Wuerttemberg and buried in Fins). In these documents the German grave numbers were noted, I assume (I saw some examples myself). Putting all these information together she could confirm the grave location of Gustav's grave and of other ten soldiers from Württemberg.

 

The results were convincing so that the CWGC will arrange with new headstones. Great!

 

Christine

 

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Today, 18th June,  would be the birthday for Gustav GEHRT ( Born 18 06 1889 )

 

Much better to remember someone on the day of their birth

 

So thanks to Ilka BOROWSKI, The VDK and The CWGC Gustav and 10 others will get a fitting tribute to a  hundred year wait.

It is so good to get a good news story !!

 

I should add that Forum friends got the whole thing moving but the icing on the cake looks like it is on the way, Hope so.

 

 

Happy Birthday Gustav.

Edited by Martin Feledziak
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Thanks a lot, Martin!!!

So nice that you mention this and remembered Gustav’s birthday.

The focus on the date of death can lead to forget the birthday......

 

Christine

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18 hours ago, AliceF said:

CWGC

 

Greetings Christine,

 

How very exciting it is.

 

I have just had a look at the 44 names which were know German soldiers with special memorials " Buried in this Cemetery". It would appear that this list has now reduced to 33.

So I have concluded that those have now been linked to to the "Unknown" graves in Plot VI  B,1 through to grave  VI B,15

 

for example Hans NAUMANN now located at VI B 15.

https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/6005178/naumann,-hans/

 

I am guessing that previously the whole of row B were "Unknown soldiers" 

This also fits with Gustav and Otto Fernand in row C.

 

 

Identified.jpg.7e6c4a7e5554188539f1828e5d91cf11.jpg

 

 

 

Guess.jpg.051098cfa265210d14ad6fee2f2e1f73.jpg

 

Note also 3 soldiers who were part of RIR247 - Otto FERNAND's unit.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Martin Feledziak
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Thanks, Martin! Yes you are right it is row B in plot VI that could be reconstructed somehow (at least partly)!

Hans Naumann is buried in plot V though.

And Ludwig Hahn seems not to fit - but sometimes the pattern is irregular. But might be plot VI C 2. Would make more sense. But sometimes it does not make sense.

All the other soldiers had already headstones with their names, but these were placed in one row next to the wall in one end of the cemetery in Fins (special memorial).

Christine

 

 

Name

Date of death

Plot

Row

Grave

Naumann, Hans

18-aug-18

5

B

15

Huber, Martin

11-aug-18

6

B

1

Hahn, Ludwig

27-aug-18

6

B

2

Brugger, August

13-aug-18

6

B

3

Kruger, Franz

13-aug-18

6

B

4

Scheufele, Albert

17-aug-18

6

B

8

Eberhardt, Johann

17-aug-18

6

B

9

Schafer, Friedrich

20-aug-18

6

B

10

Sinnwell, Peter

20-aug-18

6

B

11

Gaiser, Jakob

21-aug-18

6

B

12

Gehrt, Gustav

28-aug-18

6

C

10

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  • 5 weeks later...
  • 3 weeks later...

I have been to visit Gustav today.

 

I have made photographs which I will add here later.

At this time his plot remains as at the time of your visit. ( Christine )

 

The site is well respected and in first class condition.

 

such a tranquil setting.

 

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Hi Martin!

 

thank you so much for letting me know and the photo!

I see that the flower beds are well taken care of - though the spring and summer in France was probably as dry as in the rest of Middle and Northern Europe. Nice to see pictures in a different season as well. I was there in September last year.

 

Christine

 

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