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Sidearm

Can someone identify this location?

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Sidearm

Hi

I recently came across two photographs of 2/Lt Ernest Taylor, who was KIA on 7 September 1918 in France when serving with 7th Battalion, Lincolnshire Regiment. The photos show him with a tank (my area of interest) and in the background a barrack block. A point of detail about the tank makes me think that the photos were taken in Ireland - certainly they're not your typical photo taken in France or Flanders. Due to restrictions imposed by the archives in which I found these photos I can't post them here, but I attach another showing the same barrack block and probably the same tank. The photos can't have been taken any earlier than January 1917, and if they were taken in Ireland then not before October 1917.

Please can anyone identify the location and/or help narrow down the date?

Many thanks in anticipation.

Gwyn

(This request is mirrored by one under the Soldiers forum.)

post-20823-0-89965000-1427573117_thumb.j

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johnboy

Can't help with the location. I notice the offside track has come off . Could it be at a workshop facility?

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Roger Thompson

Neither can I, but it looks like they are both off.

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Sidearm

Thanks for the replies. I think that the fact that the tracks are in need of repair is coincidental. I now have reason to think that this might possibly be Victoria Barracks, Cork (later Collins Barracks). Can anyone confirm that?

Gwyn

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johnboy

Thanks for the replies. I think that the fact that the tracks are in need of repair is coincidental. I now have reason to think that this might possibly be Victoria Barracks, Cork (later Collins Barracks). Can anyone confirm that?

Gwyn

Not sure that I understand your comment re the tracks. They did not just fall off when the tank was parked up. I think that the nearside track tensioner may be missing. No ID number or name on the tank.

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Sidearm

Hello Johnboy

I have other photos that show a name on the glacis plate, which is out of shot in the only photo I can post here. I agree tracks don't just fall off, and in this case may well indicate some maintenance is going on, but I don't think that helps with the location. What I meant was that if this is Ireland then I think the maintenance is being carried out at the barracks where the tank was based, where they would have workshop facilities.

Gwyn

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C.TIERNEY.

Hello Sidearm,

That looks more like the Curragh Camp.

The main buildings in Collins (Victoria) Bks Cork are three storeys high and not red brick. (to the best of my memory)

Regards,

C.T.

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Sidearm

Thanks CT. I did look at photos of (what used to be known as) Ponsonby Barracks at the Curragh as there are certainly similarities, but it's not quite right. That's not to say it isn't somewhere else on the camp though.

I shall follow up that suggestion and look at more of the barrack blocks there.

Gwyn

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C.TIERNEY.

Hello Gwyn,

I don't think it's Ponsonby Bks, that was built as a cavalry bks with the stables on the ground floor of the buildings.

What you have in that photo looks more like Gough or Keane Bks at the other end of the camp, that is if you are certain the photo was taken in Ireland.

I imagine that as there were no RTR workshops (my assumption) in the Curragh at that time, any motor repairs could have been carried by the ASC at their bks (now Clarke Bks) as the majority of motor vehicles would have been on charge to the ASC. (?)

Yes but then they could have had a mobile workshop unit.

You need the input of a Curragh expert on this one.

Good luck,

C.T.

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johnboy

If you have the tanks name or ID number that might get a response from the tank experts .

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Sidearm

Good suggestion. Yes, I have the tank's name, though not its serial number, and I have already discussed it with David Fletcher and Dick Harley, the two greatest tank experts I know. Neither has come across it before but agree with my assessment that it indicates Ireland. That assessment is based on the fact that it has a prefix: "HMT". This is seen on tanks in Ireland but has never been seen used on Mark IVs elsewhere. (HMLS was used in France, but not HMT).

Gwyn

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Sidearm

Hello Gwyn,

I don't think it's Ponsonby Bks, that was built as a cavalry bks with the stables on the ground floor of the buildings.

What you have in that photo looks more like Gough or Keane Bks at the other end of the camp, that is if you are certain the photo was taken in Ireland.

I imagine that as there were no RTR workshops (my assumption) in the Curragh at that time, any motor repairs could have been carried by the ASC at their bks (now Clarke Bks) as the majority of motor vehicles would have been on charge to the ASC. (?)

Yes but then they could have had a mobile workshop unit.

You need the input of a Curragh expert on this one.

Good luck,

C.T.

Thank you CT. Very helpful. I am now in touch with the Irish Military Archives so will see what they can turn up. BTW they are digitising plans of military buildings in Ireland so this could well be a useful resource for the future: http://www.militaryarchives.ie/en/home.

Gwyn

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delta

Mark IV tanks arrived in Dublin around 8 November 1917 - possibly as many as four; one tank officer (Capt Leonard Bates) was fatally injured as one tank was offloaded at the Ballsbridge railway sidings on 10 November.

Not sure that my info helps as Ballsbridge seems a long way from the Curragh

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Sidearm

Thanks Delta. Yes, I believe that this tank is one of those four.

Following up CT's suggestion, Gough Barracks at the Curragh (now known as McDonagh Barracks) is a very good match, after taking into account the fact that the roof was re-slated in the 1980s and assuming that some (presumably redundant) chimneys were removed at the same time. However, the first floor veranda railings are of a different pattern, which is a little odd. See http://www.buildingsofireland.ie/niah/search.jsp?type=record&county=KD&regno=11902309. Also http://www.buildingsofireland.ie/niah/search.jsp?type=images&county=KD&regno=11902309.

I have failed to find any photos of Keane (now Pearse) Barracks.

Now to check the Irish Military Archives website to see if I can find any plans.

Thanks for all the help everyone.

Gwyn

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C.TIERNEY.

Hi Gwyn,

I feel like a dog with the bone here.

Gough/Keane Bks were I'm led to believe modelled on Jelalabad Barracks, Tidworth.

In comparison to vintage pics from the Curragh your photo does not look right for a couple of reasons.

The concrete 'barging' on the roofs plus extra chimneys and the balconies are facing a green area where in the Curragh they face onto hard surface 'squares'

You should seek out vintage pics of Jelalabad Bks as I believe it was mostly demolished for redevelopment in the 1990s.

Here endeth my input.

Regards,

C.

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Sidearm

Your input gratefully received CT.

Gwyn

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kildaremark

Certainly looks like the Curragh to me. Again, some of the blocks have now been demolished but the fact that it is on a slope with the camera clearly on lower ground certainly makes look like some of the married quarters. These blocks have green areas in front of them that match the photo.

post-6633-0-13596500-1429102472_thumb.jp

Mark

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