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Victoria Cross Feast!


Kitchener's Bugle

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Yes. We know all this and it's in the article in the Dorset Life magazine. I'm sorry but none of you are reading my question properly.

In the photo of him held but the Blandford Forum Museum which was given to them and taken by his brother, his cap badge in NOT the same as the one in the other photos of him. He is wearing a badge which appears to be from the Royal Warwickshire Regiment'.

Here's a link to the photo in question - http://dorset-ancestors.com/?p=2166

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Definitely R Warwicks, but no idea why. Is it possible he started with them and moved to the King's, or even went the other way and transferred to the Warwicks from the King's? Does his MIC have any information?

Personally, I have no idea!

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Actually, looking at the two pictures, I'd say the Warwicks one is younger-looking; fuller face and generally looks a slightly older set-up of the photo, so I would assume he started in the Warwicks and moved on; it's then an old photo the brother has had and passed on. It's noticeable he's not wearing his VC ribbon in that photo.

Of course, it might not appear on his MIC if he transferred before going overseas: have any of his service records survived?

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Apparently the back of the 'Blandford' photo states it was taken in Liverpool and at the time he was awarded his VC.

Perhaps his brother means when it was 'gazetteered' but before he actually collected the medal which would explain why he doesn't have the ribbon but doesn't explain the Liverpool connection. He met his wife when in Liverpool, by which time he was presumably in the Liverpool Reg (if he'd ever been in another).

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phsvm.

Please tell me when the brother gave the photograph to the Blandford Museum.

On a different note, Counter was conscripted in Feb 17, and won his Cross in April 18. The award was gazetted in May 1918, at which point he was entitled to put up the ribbon. This, then is the earliest date at which the "ribbon up" photo could have been taken.

He is however not wearing the BWM or VM ribbons which were authorised in in mid 1919, so those are the limiting dates.

I suppose it is possible that his appearance could have changed significantly between Feb 17 and mid 1919, but given this facial change and the apparent mystery about the badge, I am suspicious that the "Blandford" photo is not of Counter VC, despite its seeming provenance. Stranger things have happened in families !

That is the reason for my opening question, but I accept, of course, that I am on shaky ground so I'll develop my point (if I can) when it is answered.

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Another quotation from the 'Liverpool Heroes' book, which may help:

'...joining the army in February 1917, as a private. He was eventually posted to the 1st Battalion King's Liverpool Regiment (KLR) and after initial training was sent to join the regiment in France.'

This seems to allow for an earlier spell, possibly with the R.Warwickshires. His MIC on Ancestry is marked 'V.C.' but has only his KLR service shown towards his Victory and British War Medals. There must be another MIC for his V.C. on the National Archives site. His page among Ancestry's record of Victoria Cross holders makes no reference to other service.

D

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Interesting group in number 33 (Robert Scott VC), with QSA and KSA, a WW2 war medal, but no WW1 medals. He served throughout WW1, but at home and so did not qualify. Looked at this way it seems rather harsh not to have his service recognsied (altough he did get his long service and meritorious conduct medals out of it). There can't be many groups which contain QSA, WW1 and WW2 medals.

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Thanks Steven, Stoppage Drill and Daggers for your comments.

I'm afraid I don't know the answer to when the photo was given to Blandford Museum but all that you say about his age of the photo, timelines, earlier regiments etc make sense. I'll see if I can find out anymore info and post if/when I do

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Interesting group in number 33 (Robert Scott VC), with QSA and KSA, a WW2 war medal, but no WW1 medals. He served throughout WW1, but at home and so did not qualify. Looked at this way it seems rather harsh not to have his service recognsied (altough he did get his long service and meritorious conduct medals out of it). There can't be many groups which contain QSA, WW1 and WW2 medals.

Hello Munce, interesting is that, he did serve in WW1 But never left British Shores hence no campaign medal entitlement.

Robert Scott VC (June 4, 1874 - 21 February 1961) From being born and the earlier part of his life he lived at 14 Peel Street (the street that leads off from the Roebuck pub). From the age of 10 until he enlisted in 1894 he worked in a local Haslingden cotton mill. Up until recently there was a Blue Commemorative Plaque on his former Peel Street home, but this seems to have disappeared...

He was Haslingden's only recipient of the Victoria Cross - the highest and most prestigious award for gallantry in the face of the enemy that can be awarded to British and Commonwealth forces.

He was a private in the 1st Battalion in the Manchester Regiment, during the Second Boer War.

On 6th January 1900 during an attack on Caesar's Camp, Natal, South Africa, sixteen men of "D" Company were defending one of the slopes of the hill. The defenders were under heavy fire all day, the majority being killed and their positions occupied by the enemy. At last only Private Scott and one other man (James Pitts) remained. They held their post for fifteen hours without food or water, all the time exchanging deadly fire with the enemy, until relief troops had retaken the lost ground and pushed the enemy off the hill. During this prolonged attack he did receive injuries.

Possesses the Queen's and King's medal with many clasps, including almost the first and the last Elandslaagte and Belfast. The officer under whom he served during the great attack on the town was Lieutenant R. Hunt-Grubbe, and the Victoria Cross was pinned on his breast by Lord Kitchener on June 8, 1902, at Pretoria

He recovered from his wound and was then Orderly Room Sergeant at Ashton Barracks during the Great War. He left the service in 1923 and went to live in County Down, Ireland, where he joined the police force. He served with the Royal Air Force during the Second World War, and was employed with the civil service until his retirement. He died at Downpatrick, County Down, on 22 February 1961 and is buried in Christchurch Cemetary, Kilkeel, C.Down.

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Great to see these pictures. Thanks for posting K.B.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Thanks for sharing your impressive photographs. I am totally ignorant where medals are concerned & would appreciate it if you could confirm for me the circumstances for award of the Victory Medal and the British War Medal in WWI. I'm assuming, after looking at your images, that the former is for a conspicuous act of bravery. All the RAMC soldiers' records that I'm researching appear to include both medals. Can you explain why the British War Medal was awarded? Also, how does one ascertain what the specific act of bravery was that each soldier was awarded for. For instance, I know that Alan Wilby Attwooll 304 RAMC Pte was awarded the British War Medal and the Victory Medal as recorded in the WWI Service Medal & Awards Rolls 1914-20 but I don't know what he did to merit these honours or how to find this information. Cheers, Martina

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Thanks for sharing your impressive photographs. I am totally ignorant where medals are concerned & would appreciate it if you could confirm for me the circumstances for award of the Victory Medal and the British War Medal in WWI. I'm assuming, after looking at your images, that the former is for a conspicuous act of bravery. All the RAMC soldiers' records that I'm researching appear to include both medals. Can you explain why the British War Medal was awarded? Also, how does one ascertain what the specific act of bravery was that each soldier was awarded for. For instance, I know that Alan Wilby Attwooll 304 RAMC Pte was awarded the British War Medal and the Victory Medal as recorded in the WWI Service Medal & Awards Rolls 1914-20 but I don't know what he did to merit these honours or how to find this information. Cheers, Martina

The BWM and VM were both campaign medals, ie not awarded for acts of individual bravery but for general service. The relevant Wiki articles should give quite a good over-view on them:

BWM:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_War_Medal

VM:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victory_Medal_(United_Kingdom)

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Thanks for this information - I now have a much better understanding about these medals. Cheers, Martina

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