Pat Twomey Posted 9 March , 2015 Share Posted 9 March , 2015 Anyone any information on John Joseph Devereaux from Cork who served in the Great War. Don't have any further info. but would be grateful to anyone who could provide a start for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonmate Posted 9 March , 2015 Share Posted 9 March , 2015 One likely candidate with that name served with 2 Leinsters (5904) in 73 Infantry Brigade of 24 Division,and later with 7 Battalion Royal Irish Regt (25943) in 49 Infantry Brigade of 16 Division. This latter unit was mostly made up in France in Sep 1917 from dismounted members of the South Irish Horse. Also,member here Museum Tom may have some info as he does Irish soldiers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langdon Posted 9 March , 2015 Share Posted 9 March , 2015 According to the Silver War Badge records this likely candidate was discharged from the RIR due to "sickness & wounds" on 18th January 1919. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Twomey Posted 10 March , 2015 Author Share Posted 10 March , 2015 Thanks Sotonmate and Mike that looks like a promising lead. Another possibility is Serjeant John Devereaux 4204 of the Munster Fusiliers. The guy I'm interested in was interned in Ballykinlar internment camp in Co Down from 1920 - 1921 and then returned to Cork to live out a quite life. Thanks again and I'd really appreciate any further leads. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 10 March , 2015 Share Posted 10 March , 2015 The IRA files are here;- http://www.militaryarchives.ie/search/?cx=002081102009708133800%3A2qs81ngkkog&cof=FORID%3A11%3BNB%3A1&ie=UTF-8&q=devereaux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonmate Posted 10 March , 2015 Share Posted 10 March , 2015 Tom You're looking well ! Good that you have some info to help ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Twomey Posted 10 March , 2015 Author Share Posted 10 March , 2015 Thanks museumtom. I had a look through the 17 people named Devereaux in those files but no luck. According to Liam O'Duibhir's book published in 2013 Prisoners of War: Ballykinlar Internment Camp 1920-1921 Devereaux and other internees who had served with the British Army in WW1 were treated with suspicion and not to be trusted. About 1600 internees were held in Ballykinlar and I would guess that some of those were very 'loosely' connected to the republican movement and a small number were ex WW1 soldiers. Again thanks your reply. I'm beginning to think that the most likely candidate is Serjeant John Devereaux 4204 of the Munster Fusiliers as the 2nd Leinsters (5904) candidate was only discharged from the army in January 1919. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Twomey Posted 12 March , 2015 Author Share Posted 12 March , 2015 I found him in the WW1 pensions which has the attestation paper: John Devereaux 1319 Connaught Rangers, 19 years of age. Formerly served in the R M F and discharged under 29C Signed up for 3 years dated 23, Oct, 1914 But I can't find him in the medal index roll. Any ideas on how to find out more about him? Thanks, Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Twomey Posted 12 March , 2015 Author Share Posted 12 March , 2015 Also found the census return for him. 1901 aged 3 living in Roches Blds. 1911 aged 14 living in Monkstown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langdon Posted 12 March , 2015 Share Posted 12 March , 2015 The 1914/15 Roll for 4204 has date of disembarkation 28th November 1914 and the BWM & VM roll has 2nd and 6th RMF. And on both he was discharged under Class Z on 14th May 1919. 1319 6th Connaught Rangers was formerly in the RMF, only served at home and was discharged medically unfit on 12th May 1915 - hence no medal index card. BTW I don't think it's "discharged under 29C" on the attestation page of 1319 but "discharged under age".. So 1319 was possibly twice under age - initially with the RMF and then gave an incorrect age of 19 when joining the CR (as seen in the census dates above). Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Twomey Posted 12 March , 2015 Author Share Posted 12 March , 2015 Thanks Mike, Can I ask you where you found that he was discharged medically unfit on 12th May 1915? And yes you are right it is under age and not under 29C ...doh! Again thanks for your help. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langdon Posted 13 March , 2015 Share Posted 13 March , 2015 On the 2nd page of his attestation papers (2063 on Ancestry). Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Twomey Posted 13 March , 2015 Author Share Posted 13 March , 2015 Thanks again Mike I didn't realize that there were further pages if I scrolled to the next one. It seems John Devereaux signed up, sometime prior to October 1914, for the Royal Munster Fusiliers. Is wasn't long before it was discovered that he was underage and discharged but then in October 1914 at the age of 17 he enlisted again and gave his age as 19. Then about 6 months later while digging a trench near Fermoy he complained of palpitations and after a medical examination (the MO said he was '...a weakly delicate looking' young man and discharged him as medically unfit but said he would be suitable for clerical duties in a hosp. It then went on to mention 26/- per week but I'm not sure if this is a pension or is it what his wages might be if he got the clerical job in the hosp. Would a soldier with so little time served be entitled to a pension? Also while in Ballykinlar he was under suspicion of being an agent sent in to gather information about the IRA. Wonder if there was any truth in it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langdon Posted 13 March , 2015 Share Posted 13 March , 2015 I think those on "short service" for the war were entitled to a pension if they were disabled - i.e. wounded or injured - but I don't know the rates. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Twomey Posted 14 March , 2015 Author Share Posted 14 March , 2015 What was the minimum age of enlistment? It would seem that John Devereaux was 17 but pretended to be 19 when he joined the Connaught Rangers. The 6th (Service) Battalion of the Connaught Rangers was formed at Kilworth in Sept. 1914 and John Devereaux was with them when they moved to Fermoy. Then shortly after he was dischaged his Battalion moved to England and then to France in December 1915. Caught in the German offensive in the early part of 1918 the Battalion suffered such heavy casualties that it was reduced to cadre before finally being disbanded on 3rd August 1918. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langdon Posted 14 March , 2015 Share Posted 14 March , 2015 I believe it was 18 for the regular army at the outbreak of war and 19 for the new (Kitchener) armies. Have a look at The Long, Long Trail - it has quite a lot about enlistment. Have you a registered date of birth? He may have been 16 as his census dates say "abt. 1897" and "abt. 1898". A 'weakly delicate looking' young man may have looked even younger.. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Twomey Posted 14 March , 2015 Author Share Posted 14 March , 2015 Hi Mike Thanks for that. I made the presumption that because he enlisted in October 1914 then he may have reached his 17th birthday. I will see can I find his birth registration and I will also look at the LLT for more on enlistment. Thanks again Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Twomey Posted 14 March , 2015 Author Share Posted 14 March , 2015 Think I found him in Ancestry. Born April-June 1897 Cork That would make him 17 years of age on enlistment in October 1914. Enlisting men had to be 18 to join the Regular army or the reserves but no proof of age was needed however, with a history of underage enlisting you would think that they would check his age out. Thanks for the leads Mike. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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